Roger Marsh: Welcome to Family Talk, the listener-supported broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Roger Marsh, and today we're going to hear the conclusion of Dr. Tim Clinton's two-part conversation with Dr. Michael Youssef. They'll be discussing Dr. Youssef's brand-new book called Hope In This Present Crisis, The Seven-Step Path to Restoring a World Gone Mad.
Roger Marsh: Dr. Michael Youssef is a well-known author, speaker, and founder of Leading The Way Ministries. Despite the advice of his mother's doctor to abort him due to her at-risk pregnancy, Dr. Michael Youssef was born to his mom and lived as a child in Egypt, Lebanon, and Australia before coming to the US and fulfilling his childhood dream of becoming an American citizen. Dr. Youssef holds degrees from Moore College in Sydney, Australia, Fuller Theological Seminary in Southern California, and earned a PhD in social anthropology from Emory University. He resides with his wife in Atlanta. They have four grown children and 10 grandchildren.
Roger Marsh: Praise God that Dr. Michael Youssef's mother decided to choose life. Think about the thousands, probably millions of lives that he has touched, just because he was able to live out the life that God anointed for him as he knit him together in his mother's womb.
Roger Marsh: Today, Dr. Youssef and Dr. Tim Clinton will continue discussing the importance of knowing the truth. They'll remind us that the only way to know truth is to know God's word, and they'll offer practical advice on raising up our children in a society where truth is often an afterthought.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Dr. Youssef, welcome back and what a delightful conversation we had yesterday about your new book, Hope in This Present Crisis, The Seven-Step Path to Restoring a World Gone Mad. Dr. Youssef, it seems like the world has gone mad. It's like insanity out there.
Dr. Michael Youssef: It is.
Dr. Tim Clinton: But there's always hope in Christ. That's how we ended the program yesterday.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Yep.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Let's go back and reset that piece that you were talking about, the significance of the family and how this journey we're on right now, battling this insanity, it's really about anchoring our homes, and by the way, strengthening our churches for such a time as this.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Absolutely. And reminding them of the promises of God. You see, I've just recently heard of a mega church pastor in Nashville saying, "Oh, we are creating an idol out of the Bible. We need to be more open and not tied to a book."
Dr. Tim Clinton: No way.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Yeah, it just happened. It's in the headline news. Because I used to be part of the mainline denominations 35 years ago, and I fought those battles with the same language 35 years ago. I have the scars to show for it. I stood up when the whole denomination stood literally against me and they said, "You believe that your trinity is Father, Son and Holy scripture. We believe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is changing and evolving. And He's now telling us that homosexuality is okay, and ordaining homosexuals is okay, marrying homosexual is okay."
Dr. Michael Youssef: This is what this evangelical pastor 35 years later using the same lingo that I've experienced with Bishop Spong and all the people in the Episcopal church where I was ordained and I was serving at. They think they're clever, they're coming up with new fancy... they're not clever at all. These are old heresies; they're just recycling them. And they're grabbing the headline news because they're so-called evangelicals and everybody thinks, "Oh, he's an evangelical and he says that you don't have to believe everything in the Bible. You don't have to defend the Bible. The Bible is not really inspired of God."
Dr. Michael Youssef: The ludicrous thing about this, the Holy Spirit, is the one who authored the scripture and how you can separate the author from the book that He authored, and it's a false dichotomy. And I feel that here at my age, I'm going to have to fight this battle all over again.
Dr. Michael Youssef: But we need to remind our families and the young people they need to literally as they feed on milk, they begin to feed on the meat of the word of God. Scripture memorization. I was telling my grandson recently, I said, "You know, when your mommy and your aunt were young and I used to drive them to school. In the morning, that was my happy duty, and we'd recite scripture." I make no bones and apologies. I used to bribe them, "Hey, there's a dollar for you when you remember the verse of the week." And to this day, they are in their 40s and they remember the scriptures, and we need to go back to the word of God and the authority of the word of God, the infallibility of the word of God, and the promises of God. That these promises, as Peter said in the day of Pentecost, to you and your children.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Yes.
Dr. Michael Youssef: And that's what we need to emphasize in our families as early as possible before they even can talk that we begin to drum these things and the promises of God and their minds, so they grow up to be strong heroes and heroine for Christ.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Train them in the way they should go, and when they're old they won't depart from it. I have no greater joy than to see my children walk in the truth.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Amen.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Dr. Youssef, yesterday we talked about that word truth some, that you need to discern the truth. We talked about restoring the soul and revitalizing the family. Again, just a quick overview of that conversation and then I want to move into the classroom. The truth, how important is it again?
Dr. Michael Youssef: Well, the truth is the boundaries, what gives us boundaries in life. It gives us an understanding of rules in life, even in homes. People understand if you move the fences, they can be over there and you over there and nobody... You can do that with family or friends, but when you do it with strangers who seek to harm you, then those boundaries are guards needed to be reestablished. And that's what the truth does. And the truth is in Jesus. He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the only giver of eternal life." And because the way and the truth is going to get you eternal life.
Dr. Michael Youssef: So it is very important to go back to the truth. That truth is in Jesus and in Jesus and in the word that He affirmed in the scripture, all the promises of God is for us today, yay and amen. And so we need to get back to the truth.
Dr. Michael Youssef: I mean, just simple things, like every participant gets a trophy, everyone gets an A in the classroom and everyone... So this is denial of the truth. So the person who worked hard and the person who didn't work hard they get equal. And that's more of a Marxist ideology to destroy our Western civilization than it is really biblical truth that you work hard. It's just like the parable of the talent, you got two talents, five talents, and one talent. The guy with the one didn't even bother with it. But the others, when they worked, they were faithful with it, and they brought it in, they were rewarded. And so we need to go back to biblical truth, biblical teaching and Lord Jesus Christ taught us many things like that.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Restoring the soul. This is about authentic Christianity, living it out right?
Dr. Michael Youssef: Absolutely.
Dr. Tim Clinton: And chasing after it.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Yes. It is no use to say just, "I am a Christian." What does that mean? And you start unpacking it, it means that I am not just a follower, because I can follow Jesus. Without Jesus's gift of faith that He gives me, I can't follow Him for one step. I'll fall and stumble all over the place. But knowing that by faith alone, I am standing by grace alone and imitating Christ alone and living the life that is pleasing to Him, that is honoring to Him, a life that He in the end would say to me, "Well done, good and faithful servant."
Dr. Tim Clinton: Revitalizing the family. Bottom line, this is about protecting the walls of your home and the little ones, because little hearts and hands are fashioned in a home. And this is an admonition to moms and dads to make sure and step into this moment and train up a generation who know the truth, who live authentically.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Exactly. Psalm 127 and Psalm 128, probably the two most important psalms for the family. One says that the children of the faithful parent is like an arrow, and he's going to go out there and he's going to conquer. And then in 128 it says, "He's an olive shoot." Now growing up in the Middle East we know that olive trees grow and the roots grow in the most craggy soil, but once it digs the soil, sure, in the first 10 years you don't get good berries, but 15 years you get great berries. But then it goes for 20 generations and it doesn't need cultivation. But they said the wife is a vine. Why? Because the vine, and I've been married going to be 50 years this year, so I'm married up to here. And I tell most of the young dads that a vine requires nurturing, requires cultivation. That's why it says the wife is a vine, but the children are olive trees.
Dr. Michael Youssef: And so we need to go back to that scripture, go back to what God is trying to tell us in His word and obey it. But that's not enough. We need to model for our children. There is no use I tell my kids, "Hey, you need to go this way," when I have not been there. I need to show the way, lead the way, and go the way and therefore modeling, particularly at this time, because kids are very smart. They're very discerning. They can see the difference if I'm just speaking or I'm really living it. I plead with parents, young parents, no matter how young your children are, begin to model Christ to your children so when they grow up and they hear you teaching them about Christ, they will say, "Yes, I know what that's like because I've seen my dad, I've seen my mom. They lived it, they walked it, they experienced it, and I'm going to follow in the footsteps."
Dr. Tim Clinton: Dr. Youssef, I wanted to talk to you about the classroom, because again, in your seven-step strategy, you believe that we win and we lose also in the classroom. Common core, remember when they established that and the impact it had?
Dr. Michael Youssef: Yep.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Tell us your thoughts about why this is so critical.
Dr. Michael Youssef: In fact, thankfully there's some states have rejected it altogether, which I hope the whole nation would reject it altogether, because they are not designed to identify the talent and the gift of the young people, the children. They are designed to kind of discourage hard work. So common core is really a disaster, and I know some governments and some state governments applied it and some actually, to their credit, after applying it saw the fallacy of it and took it off, which is great. But we need to be aware of it. Parents need to be aware of it. They need to actually read the curriculum of their children. I've been removed from that now for many years, but nonetheless, I sometimes go and just read my grandchildren's books to see what they're... I'm going to engage them in a conversation if there's falsehood in what they're learning.
Dr. Michael Youssef: And so, yeah, I mean the classroom is very important because if it contradicts everything in the home and the church and the children can come home and they'll say, "Hey, I learned this." Then I'll say, "Now let me tell you why you learned this because these people who wrote those curriculums don't care about you, they only care about their agenda and their philosophy and their politics." And therefore, the child can grow up discerning, yeah, there is falsehood, there is truth. There's falsehood, there's truth. It's a great opportunity for us to train the children to discern that this is false.
Dr. Michael Youssef: I remember even when I was in high school in the Middle East and my older brother who was a brilliant scientist. And I said, "Well what is this evolution thing? I believe God created." I was a young man. "God created." He said, "Yes," and he took me through it, he explained it. He said, "This is what you do to pass the exams, but you don't believe it." And again, this is a Muslim country, it's not in the West with the freedom that we have and so forth. But nonetheless, I grew up knowing there is truth, there's falsehood. Even when I learned falsehood, I'm going to treat it with a grain of salt. I'm going to stay with the truth.
Dr. Tim Clinton: My granddaughter is teaching me all over again how impressionable children are. I watch her and marvel at childhood development in a new way. I've taught it for years, but as I see it unfold in front of me, it's just amazing. And you can begin to see how significant parenting really becomes and how important those outside influences like teachers, what they can do to a child's heart and what they can do in a child's mind. It's so important that we stay engaged and involved.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Dr. Youssef, I wanted to ask you, you talk about a couple more key points. Respecting our freedoms, the First Amendment, it's everything in this country, and yet it seems like there's such an intrusion and erosion of religious freedoms. Can you address it for a moment and what it means to us at home?
Dr. Michael Youssef: Yeah. Look, I don't want to get into politics, but the truth is we do have a big slice of the political elite and their media cohorts who absolutely want to deny First Amendment, not to everybody, they want to deny the First Amendment only to Christians. And they want it for themselves.
Dr. Michael Youssef: What they don't understand is that snake is going to come and bite them too, and that is why we must not budge an inch about the First Amendment, because if we lose that, we're like all the other countries. And I've lived in other countries, and I'm so grateful to God that I live in this country where I can hold that and know that I got the truth of that law on my side. And so it's very important to teach our children that, it's very important for us to stand up for that, it's very important for us to instruct the next generation to know what the history of this great country is about.
Dr. Michael Youssef: I was 15 years old living under socialist dictatorship in the '50s and '60s, and I would go to the public library and I would get books and I would read them about the American Revolution and the American ideal. And my dream, and as soon as I turned 18, I escaped with the clothes on my back because I didn't want to come to America to make my fortune or the American dream, I just wanted to breathe the air of freedom.
Dr. Michael Youssef: And we must never, I teach this to my grandchildren. I said, "Must never allow that to be taken away, because that way we will become just like the other countries where you are literally afraid to say anything at school or afraid to say anything to your friends, because the Gestapo is going to go and tell on you."
Dr. Michael Youssef: And I lived that. And that's why I am passionate about it. Some of my pastor friends, they say, "Michael, we are heading to Heaven." I said, "I know I'm going to Heaven. I'm ready for Heaven now." But nonetheless, as long as I have breath, I want to have an impact on this generation until the Lord comes. So this idea of I'm a sojourner, I'm a traveler, I don't... No. We're not going to surrender our place in the marketplace, but we rather stand our ground lovingly and thoughtfully saying this was placed in the Bill of Rights in the Constitution for a reason. Because these people escaped from Europe where they did not have a first amendment. And so that's a very big thing for me, a very important issue with me and my family.
Dr. Tim Clinton: I wonder what people like you must think when you see the suppression happening, when you see censorship, when you begin to realize that it could be that in the United States down the road preaching the Gospel could be seen as a crime and Youssef, my guess may be when you understand religious persecution. I was stunned to learn that Christianity and persecution are at an all time high. More now than ever, yet we're turning a blind eye to it. It seems like the church doesn't want to believe this, like we're sticking our proverbial head in the sand. Dr. Youssef, a word from that kind of a heart, again, back to the church in the United States right now.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Well, as long as we want to be liked by society, want to be liked by the world, we will lose our impact. The church of Jesus Christ in America has done more for the world and I'll prove that than any other country in the world. And the reason for that is because of that commitment to the Gospel. Even the English missionary, started with William Carey in England and so forth, but it's the American church that came and buttressed that effort and took the Gospel to the ends of the earth. Now is not the time for us to let go and ignore our Christian brothers and sisters in Pakistan and Indonesia and in Nigeria and in the Middle East.
Dr. Michael Youssef: And you're exactly right, Dr. Clinton, there were more Christians who were martyred for Christ in the last decade than at the height of the Roman persecution. I was visiting with some persecuted Christians several years ago. My dear friend here behind the camera, Mike, has traveled with me and he knows this, what so many of the persecuted Christians would say to me, "We are praying for you Christians in America." I said, "How are you praying for us? To stand with you?" They said, "No, no, no. We are praying that you have a persecution because that's going to strengthen your faith and you're going to stop faulting between two opinions between the world and Christ, so you can know the joy of suffering for Christ." I said, "Oh my goodness, God had answered their prayers."
Dr. Tim Clinton: I think most would say God, awaken our hearts, change the course of our country before we have to go through anything like that. God, please do that. Intervene.
Dr. Tim Clinton: I know in your seven pieces, you also address the issue of reforming society. You talk about wokeness, you talk about the cancel culture as a reign of terror and more. But I want to close this way since we're almost out of time, the piece reviving the church. This is the heart of your message.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Absolutely.
Dr. Tim Clinton: The church needs to awaken and take her rightful place. You tell the story of a nurse, a retired nurse in her 60s, living in Rhode Island. She had started going blind in 1991 and was forced to retire. Since then, she began witnessing for Jesus to visitors in what's known as the Wilcox Park in Rhode Island, and was handing out copies of the Gospel of John. In 2019, someone complained to the police. Police showed up, told her she was trespassing and ordered her to leave the park and not return, threatening arrest and jail time.
Dr. Tim Clinton: What's interesting, and this is the most important part of the story, in June 2020, Gail filed a discrimination complaint. She stated that God had given her a mission to spread the Gospel and that's what she intends to do. Dr. Youssef, the church of Jesus Christ, your closing thoughts about what we need to do in this hour.
Dr. Michael Youssef: Absolutely. I am pleading because... I keep saying this because it's important. Some years ago, Leighton Ford, my good friend and Billy Graham's brother-in-law is a Canadian and he was an evangelist. And he told me the story over 35 years ago, that there were some studies done right across the Canadian churches, just to understand what's going on in the Canadian evangelical churches. And you know what the first conclusion was? That the church is like a bottle of champagne and the pastors are the cork, and all the bubbles going up and down and up and down, but the cork is holding them in.
Dr. Michael Youssef: And that is why I'm passionate about starting with the pastors and the elders and the church leaders. Because if you are the cork on top of that bottle... and then I can say to the congregation, "If you are in a church that is not preaching the word of God and is watering down the church of God, you get out of there and run as fast as you can, because in the end, you're going to be responsible."
Dr. Michael Youssef: So, to the leaders of the church, I plead with them, turn back to the word of God, and to the people in the pew, please be discerning. And if you see your pastor preaching a falsehood, get out of that church. It doesn't matter how many generations you have been in that church and how many generations in your family have established that church, it is vitally important for your soul and the soul of your children and your grandchildren and your family stand for the truth.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Dr. Youssef, maybe we could close this way. Maybe we could ask you to pray for the church right now in this moment, and that would be to all of us to stand strong and be courageous for such a time as this. Would you mind closing us in prayer together?
Dr. Michael Youssef: Absolutely. I would be honored. Father God, we come to you in the name of your precious son, our Lord Jesus Christ, who has redeemed us with His blood and He saved us eternally. We come to you pleading with you, Jesus, you have established your church and you said that the gates of hell will not overcome it. You are zealous for your church. And I pray, Lord God, that you would help everyone who is listening to us, Father God, that they will have an epiphany, they have an awakening and realize that the time is short and that we need to be ready for your return. Lord Jesus, that we be faithful all the way to the end. Bless Dr. Dobson, bless Dr. Clinton, bless the ministry, Lord. Bless them, bless them, bless them, for I pray that in Jesus name. Amen.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Dr. Youssef, what a joy to have you with us. Thank you again for taking time and being on this edition of Family Talk.
Dr. Michael Youssef: A pleasure.
Roger Marsh: Dr. Michael Youssef left us with a bold and galvanizing admonition to stand for the truth. But how can we know what's true and what's not? Well, God has given us the answers in His word, the Bible, the Old and New Testaments are full of God's truth, His promises, and His guidance. Second Timothy Chapter 3 verses 16 and 17 says, "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
Roger Marsh: One of the greatest gifts we can give to our children is to help them learn the truth in God's word, and we can do this by memorizing scripture with them or assigning them Bible reading throughout the week. Also, as Dr. Youssef suggested, we should make it a point to know what our kids and grandkids are learning in school. When difficult or confusing issues arise, we must be ready to have conversations with our kids and guide them toward the truth.
Roger Marsh: Now to learn more about Dr. Michael Youssef and his brand new book called Hope For This Present Crisis, visit our broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org. And if you'd like to hear any portion of today's broadcast or whatever you might've missed on yesterday's program, you can also find that as well D-R James Dobson dot O-R-G forward slash broadcast.
Roger Marsh: I'm Roger Marsh, thanks so much for making us a part of your day. From all of us here at Family Talk, have a great one and be sure to join us again next time.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.