Roger Marsh: Well, thank you for joining us for Family Talk, the radio ministry of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Roger Marsh, and today is the last broadcast day for us here in 2023. Over the past couple of days, we have heard a very compelling presentation from Charlie Kirk. As you may know, Charlie Kirk is the founder of Turning Point USA, and he's been sharing some personal stories and the reasons he wants to encourage young people to understand where their rights truly come from and what the road ahead looks like for his generation.
Today, we will be hearing from our very own Dr. James Dobson as he sits down with Charlie Kirk, and together they'll dive a bit deeper into the work that Charlie is doing.
Now, remember that today's program is included in our 2023 Broadcast Collection. If you enjoy Family Talk programs, you will want to add this year's broadcast collection to your home library. It's a five disc CD set or a digital download, and it includes programs featuring the one you're listening to with Charlie Kirk, also an interview with Bob Vander Plaats, Dr. Del Tackett, and more. For your copy of the 2023 Broadcast Collection, just visit drjamesdobson.org/2023. We'll be happy to send you a copy as our way of thanking you for your gift of any amount in support of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute today. Remember, a gift made today online is considered tax deductible in tax year 2023. Again, you'll find all the information you need at drjamesdobson.org/2023.
Now, let's get to today's program. This classic conversation we're about to hear with Dr. Dobson and Charlie Kirk was recorded at a very special event here in Colorado Springs, Colorado. So let's listen into them right now, right here on Family Talk.
Dr. James Dobson: Charlie, you set my soul on fire. If every pastor in America could hear your message and buy into it and repeat it, churches couldn't hold the number of people that would come. They're waiting for somebody who believes what they say and put their money where their mouth is. We were talking at lunch today that you have regularly gone to Cal Berkeley-
Charlie Kirk: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: ... of all places, and you came out alive.
Charlie Kirk: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: Where do you get the guts to do that?
Charlie Kirk: I grew up in Chicago, which is ... The fun thing about being from Illinois, as a sidebar, is we have term limits. It's one term in office, one term in jail for all of our leaders.
But look, I'm a Scot and it's in my blood to love a good fight. I'll be honest, yeah, Berkeley gets lively. Victor was there and helped on our security detail. There were some people I think that wanted me dead. Would that be fair, Victor, to say?
Victor Marx: Yes.
Charlie Kirk: Yep, but Victor ministered to them and had ... He did. There were some demons that needed to be confronted there.
But look, I really take my faith seriously. At least for me, I know how the story ends. We're not called to be foolish, so of course I go with the right protection and stuff to Berkeley and all this stuff, but I'm also just not comfortable only talking to people that agree with me all the time. I find such invigoration and excitement and energy to go to places where not a soul agrees with me. That is the coolest thing in the world. No, I mean that.
We are the speaking beings. We're made in the image of God. "In the beginning was the word. The word was God and the word became flesh." The other way we talk about the creation story is God spoke things into existence. So our ability to speak, the common noun miracle, to have rational speech, is all that keeps us from the beasts or the barbarians of the past. So if we can't go to Berkeley and have a conversation, then we're done. So I enjoy it.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, we hear about these rallies that take place to try to keep people like you from coming in there, and some of them get very threatening.
Charlie Kirk: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: How do you manage to get the right to speak there and do things like you just said, where you talked about the transgender nonsense and took it on? What do these radicals do when you do that?
Charlie Kirk: Some of them act as if there is such a clear demonic element, screaming, breaking stuff and windows and all of that. Look, I'm very outspoken on the trans thing. I call it the alphabet mafia that comes after you to try to destroy your life. This is a cartel of a regime that is trying to destroy gender norms. I go as far to say that if someone is thinking that they're transgender, that they are participating in an equivalent of gender blackface, that they are trying to pretend something that they are not, to appropriate an identity to try to blur right and wrong. Just give an idea of a flavor of how blunt I am on these campuses. Most kids are kind of in shock and in silence when I say this.
But, honestly, a lot of kids that will find that to be oppositional, we have a way we run our events. Anyone who's been at a Turning Point USA campus event will tell you that we do this every time. If you disagree, you get to ask the first question, you go to the front of the line, and you get the mic for a minute and tell me why you disagree. Then we're going to have a conversation. It always goes well for me.
Dr. James Dobson: Tell me if the students on these radical campuses really do want to hear the truth. Is there really a hunger for the gospel that just isn't finding expression?
Charlie Kirk: Somewhat. Look, there's a great quote where it's not about the conversions, it's about the conversations. Some of these kids have never been exposed at all to our metaphysical belief, to what we believe and why we believe it, but they certainly think they know things about Christianity. A common one that you'll hear is that more people have died because of Christianity, another belief system, a complete and total fallacious lie from the enemy.
When I say I set up a table, I just want you all to understand how intimate this entire experience is. I will sit in a chair like this on the college campus in the middle of the quad and set up a card table, and anyone can come up and ask a question. We have security and stuff and it can get lively, but that's when you really get to get into the conversations.
After about 20 minutes, after 40 minutes, yeah, they're talking about abortion or politics. It always goes the same direction. They'll ask one question, "Are you religious?" Say, "Yeah, of course I am." They say, "Why?" Of course, this is where the spiritual component starts to manifest itself because everything else is just a physical representation of that. At least in Austin last week, while everything else was going along, 200 kids listening, you could hear a pin drop when I was sharing the gospel. I don't know how impactful it was, but they were like, "Well, the Bible is just legendary documents that has never been proven true." You might as well just do a softball pitch for anyone that's been through a basic apologetics course. There's never been an archeological discovery that has disproven the Bible. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John is the most accurate historical documents ever in the history of the world with the most verification. We even go through more ... incredible amount of depth there.
There is more curiosity, Doctor, than I think people realize. Doesn't happen overnight, but what I have learned is that watering it down and pandering is the worst thing you can do.
Dr. James Dobson: You were telling me at lunch too today the number of students, young people, that you've led to the Lord. What's that number?
Charlie Kirk: It's an approximation, but it's definitely in the thousands, and we only have been doing it really these worship nights to reinforce what we do here. You guys are all welcome to our events, and the events are branded as a celebration of America, a celebration of liberty, where we will have pastors like Jack Hibbs and we'll have speakers like Bob McEwen come. Then we have those worship nights, and then we have those worship services. It will just bring tears to your eyes of these kids that are there for conservative ideas and values that are then committing their life to the Lord. I think Victor alone has brought three of our staff members to the Lord in the last 90 days. Is that about right, Victor? But I know this-
Dr. James Dobson: He's another one that's got the courage of his conviction.
Charlie Kirk: Well, that's why we get along so well, I got to tell you. Because look, time is running thin, everybody. We don't have time for gutless wonders. We just don't. I have no patience for them. Now is not the time for that.
But, Doctor, it's so incredible to see because it is the opposite what I was told by institutional Christianity, which is institutional Christianity has always said politics will turn people off. That might be true in some homes and some communities, but when we have an event and there's 10,000 young people there, 10,000 young people for conservative ideas to celebrate America, don't believe me, come to Phoenix December 17, 18, 19, 20, you'll be blown away. I would say half are Christian and maybe half of them are serious about their faith. But all of a sudden they start to realize that our speakers are all talking about God-given rights, talking about giving their life to the Lord, and they want some of what they're hearing. In some ways, it's this amazing ministry opportunity that I think we have never realized.
But it starts with truth. It doesn't start with pandering. It doesn't start with all the pizazz that people say that you have to do. The truth is like a lion. Once you set it free, it'll take care of itself.
Dr. James Dobson: Where'd you get the vision to go with this in the beginning? You had no way of knowing that you would have the reception that you've had. Yet you had this passion to tell the truth. That's what's most impressive about you is that you waded into the den of lions fearlessly, or so it appears from here. Was there any kind of a revelation? How did the call come to do what you're doing?
Charlie Kirk: Thank you for those kind words, Doctor. It really means a lot. Look, when I was in high school, I wanted to go to West Point. Everyone in my local community went to college. Some of you at lunch heard me tell this story before. Didn't get into West Point. Best thing that never happened to me. Decided to take a gap year, turned into a gap decade. Still on my gap decade, by the way. The one thing, the way I could answer that question, where does it come from? I hate bullies and I always have. I'm not the guy that will sit idly by when an injustice unfolds. It's just the way I'm wired. Some of you can resonate with that. Some of you might say, "I don't quite understand it." I just wasn't the type of guy that was okay with watching an entire generation become increasingly left and secular and in that direction.
So I started Turning Point USA, some great mentors. Bill Montgomery and Foster Friess were the two ones that really got us started. Bill Montgomery, may he rest in peace, was literally a 72-year-old. I was 18. First thing he ever said to me after he heard me give a speech was, "You shouldn't go to college." He was the first person ever in my life to say, "You have a gift of speaking." Never heard it. But honestly, Doctor, it always came back to my faith, it did, is that my faith was the bedrock that gave me the why.
But I want to speak a little bit about this though, because while I was always a Christian throughout the growth of Turning Point USA, if you go to the early speeches of Turning Point USA in '13, '14, '15, '16, and some people in the line were remarking on this and they're totally right, which is, "Charlie, I didn't know you were a Christian." Because even I was raised in a church community where I was told you do not talk about these two things together ever. It wasn't until I met Pastor Rob McCoy at Liberty University, my now pastor, where he blew my mind. We had a four-hour conversation from 8:00 PM to 1:00 AM, where he said, "Charlie, everything you're doing is about liberty, which is God's idea, not man's idea. You're talking about truth." He said, "The church is about that. What you're doing on college campuses," he said, "you should speak more openly about your faith." It really challenged me to do that.
I'll tell you what, when I made that decision, we had some group of Turning Point donors that said, "Charlie, I hate the fact you're doing more of this. I don't like it," and we lost them. Honestly, but we have been blessed 100 times, 1,000 times the more bold we've been about our faith, the more bold we've been about our convictions. It's been awesome. It really has.
Roger Marsh: You're listening to Family Talk and I'm Roger Marsh. Our guest today on the program is Charlie Kirk. Just a quick bit about Charlie. He is the founder and president of Turning Point USA, which seeks to educate and organize students to promote freedom. Charlie is a godly man who has a deep desire to educate the next generation about God and the political world.
Today, we are hearing a conversation between our very own Dr. James Dobson and Charlie Kirk as we get deeper insight into the work that Charlie is doing. This conversation was recorded at a live event organized by Dr. Dobson here in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
Let's jump back in right now and hear more from Charlie Kirk and Dr. James Dobson on this special edition of Family Talk.
Dr. James Dobson: You are defending the underdog, aren't you? You're going into territory that others are afraid to mention, as you just said. I don't want to sound self-serving here, but I have that same desire to reach out to those who are being oppressed. When I was five years old, Pearl Harbor occurred. On our block there was a little Italian boy. They called him a dago. They made fun of him. They rejected him. My friends in the neighborhood gave him grief. I left the safety of that larger group to be the only friend for that kid. I feel that same way about mothers at home and others who are being oppressed by the culture, and we really need to be bold in standing up for what we believe.
Charlie Kirk: Amen. That's so beautiful. Let me also say though, one of the reasons why our message is gaining in popularity is when I'll go talk about how most American women should become mothers and be proud of that, all of a sudden you will see some girls, their eyes will open up in the audience and they will say, "Finally, somebody says that out loud." You know they don't hear that at all at a secular college? They are told nothing but career, wait til you get married. It just actually happens to be a majority of young women are asking for cultural permission to do what they really want to do, which is to go get married and have children. I'm telling you, you get attacked from everyone when you say that. I don't care. I encourage you not to care because there's actually this silent majority, this massive population of young people that are asking for somebody to give them permission to do what they're actually wired by God to do.
Dr. James Dobson: Amen. I was counseling a young woman, she was about 20 years of age, about her life and where she was going. She said, "Can I tell you something honestly?" I said, "That's why you're here. Do that." She looked at me and said, "I don't want a career at all. I want to be a wife and mother." I said, "Sally, why do you have to whisper it to me?" She said, "Are you kidding?" She went to Cal. It wasn't Berkeley, but she went to one of the California universities. She said, "If my professors and even my friends knew that I wanted to do that, they would laugh me out of school." I determined to do what I could to change that. It's an uphill battle, but it's part of the same thing, but it's the truth.
Charlie Kirk: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: Truth with a capital T.
Charlie Kirk: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: I only have one word of advice for you as I listen to you. I hope you will not forget this. Don't forget that that little girl that you have needs you. You're on the road 300 days a year. That won't work as a father. You got to find a way to balance those things a bit.
Charlie Kirk: It's currently a big concern because we got a lot of work to do, but family comes first. So someone's going to have to step up.
Dr. James Dobson: Charlie, where do you go from here? You hit that pinnacle, what you're been able to accomplish with God's blessing and his direction. What is the future? What's the next step in what he wants you to do?
Charlie Kirk: Well, thank you. I'm probably too hard on myself because to actually hear you say that is very touching because I always think I'm not doing enough and that we're not pushing forward. So thank you for saying that.
I love radio. I see it really growing. We're on 12:00 to 3:00 every single day. Honored to be in the rush slot on 145 stations across the country and obviously podcasting as well, and also on Real America's Voice, if any of you guys watch that. Really great channel, and Salem has been just the best partner. You know what's so great? I have to say, working with Salem and working with Real America's Voice, them together. Salem especially. I have never received a phone call after one of my spicier segments ever, and meaning I could say what I want and proclaim truth, and they always have my back. That's a big deal, by the way, in media today. You don't find that.
Dr. James Dobson: I experienced the same thing.
Charlie Kirk: With Salem.
Dr. James Dobson: With Salem, yes.
Charlie Kirk: They always have your back when you proclaim truth, and that's a very rare thing. It really is.
Look, with Turning Point USA on the high school and college side, as I said, we're on pace to hit 1,000 high school chapters and our college chapter continuing. We really want to be able to have basically full court coverage, if you will, to get to 5,000 high school chapters. We think we can do that. It's going to be incredibly ambitious. We got to hire a lot more staff, but we think we can get that done.
We have Turning Point Academy, which is growing like gangbusters with our partnership with Hillsdale College and many others, where we want to try to have 1,000 church hybrid micro-schools across America to make homeschooling easier. But not necessarily homeschooling, but one or two days of bridge schooling, you could say, pod schooling. That's taking off like gangbusters.
Then my focus in the church is, I want to excommunicate the woke mind parasite from the American church. That's my current obsession. It really is. That is trying to destroy the American family, trying to destroy inerrant theology. I think I'm probably better positioned than most to speak openly about it.
Also, we have TPUSA Faith. I think we're one of the few organizations, and Dr. Dobson, I think you could be one of the others, that can get swinging from the chandelier Pentecostals and five point Calvinists and Episcopalians all in the same room to agree that we need to do something about liberty and to destroy the woke because-
Dr. James Dobson: That's pretty graphic there, Charlie.
Charlie Kirk: Yeah, swinging from the chandelier Pentecostals?
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Kirk: You should come to one of these churches I spoke at. That's the least of what they're doing. Snakes, they got the whole thing. That's fine. It's great. They want to do something about liberty. But I'll say, we have all these theological differences, or not necessarily me, but all of them. If I wasn't in the room, they might be fighting about them. We have a rule at TPUSA Faith, which is if we do not get liberty right, then you're all going to be having your theological disputes from prison. So we have to have this be the body of Christ believing in the Nicene Creed united for this idea of liberty and the American family. So we got a lot of projects we're doing, Doctor. We're just getting started.
Dr. James Dobson: I'm sure you agree that ultimately the hope for America is a nationwide or a worldwide revival-
Charlie Kirk: It's the only hope.
Dr. James Dobson: ... and that our prayer life should focus on that, because everything else is good, but not the ultimate solution.
Charlie Kirk: It's the only hope.
Dr. James Dobson: Charlie, with your permission, we're going to go straight to the radio program, including what we're saying.
Charlie Kirk: Please do. I look forward to the mail from pastors.
Dr. James Dobson: I join. That'll be something to behold.
Charlie Kirk: Bring it on.
Dr. James Dobson: Thank you for being our guest. Let me tell you what this man did. He flew here from Florida today, flies back to Phoenix tomorrow. He did not have the time to be here tonight. He came because he felt like he should. That's what drives this man, and let's give him a rousing appreciation.
Charlie Kirk: It's a great honor. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
Roger Marsh: Well, what a thought-provoking and insightful conversation featuring our own Dr. James Dobson and his special guest, Charlie Kirk, here on Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh, and Charlie really takes his faith very seriously. He truly has a gift of delivering an impassioned presentation. He seeks to hold the line and dive into the line of fire in the hearts of youth for God.
In addition to his work with Turning Point USA, Charlie also hosts the daily national radio program called The Charlie Kirk Show, as well as Saving America with Charlie Kirk, which is simulcast on the Real America's Voice television network. Charlie is also a bestselling author, a columnist, a frequent contributor to Fox News, and reaches over 100 million people every day on social media.
Now, before we leave the air for today and for the year, I want to remind you that for the month of December, we have had a special matching grant in place thanks to some very special friends of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. This means that any financial contribution you make to the JDFI this month will be instantly doubled and have twice the impact. Now, December ends on Sunday, so if you've been thinking about it and praying about it, now is the time to take action to make a donation and take advantage of this special matching grant while it's still in place. You can give a gift online at drjamesdobson.org. That's drjamesdobson.org. You can also give a gift over the phone when you call 877-732-6825. That's 877-732-6825. Now, if you prefer, you can also send a gift through the US mail, but bear in mind we need to have it postmarked before December 31st to qualify to match with the matching grant. Our ministry mailing address is The Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado. The zip code, 80949. Thanks so much for your prayers and also for your ongoing financial support of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
Well, we hope that God has touched your heart through today's powerful message, and thank you so much for listening to Family Talk today and all throughout the year. We are looking forward to what the Lord has in store for us and for you in 2024. So on behalf of Dr. Dobson, his wife Shirley, and the entire Family Talk team, happy New Year. Be sure to join us again on Monday as we kick off 2024. I'll be winding the clock back with Dr. Dobson and share some of his lesser known stories from his past. Til then, I'm Roger Marsh. Have a safe and happy New Year. Hope you have fun celebrating with your family and friends as we ring in 2024. Thanks for listening.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.