The Harbingers of Things To Come - Part 2 (Transcript)

Dr. James Dobson: Well, hello everyone. I'm James Dobson and you're listening to Family Talk, a listener supported ministry. In fact, thank you so much for being part of that support for James Dobson Family Institute.

Roger Marsh: Hello, and welcome to Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh. And today on the program, we're bringing you part two of a recent interview featuring Dr. Tim Clinton and Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. Rabbi Cahn is the best-selling author of The Harbinger, The Harbinger II, The Oracle and more. He has been a guest on Family Talk numerous times. He's the President of Hope of the World Ministries, and also serves as the senior pastor and messianic Rabbi of the Jerusalem Center, Beth Israel in Wayne, New Jersey. Rabbi Cahn is married to Renata and they have three sons.

He joined Dr. Clinton to talk about his upcoming film called, The Harbingers Of Things To Come. This movie is a somber, but hopeful look at recent signs that mimic ancient warnings that God gave to Israel during biblical times. You can watch The Harbingers of Things to Come in theaters around the nation, Thursday, May 12th and then again on Thursday, May 19th. You do not want to miss this film. Find out how to buy tickets and bring your friends and family by visiting, and selecting the broadcast tab. Here now is Dr. Tim Clinton to introduce his guest, Rabbi Jonathan Cahn right here on Family Talk.

Dr. Tim Clinton: A delight to have our special guest in studio with us, Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. We're talking about The Harbinger, and a new movie release, The Harbingers of Things to Come, releasing in theaters all over the country, May 12th. What a delightful conversation we had yesterday. Hear this just for a moment, is it possible that what happened to the United States and the world from 9/11 to COVID-19, are a part of an ancient mystery? Is it a warning? Does the mystery tell us of what is yet to come? Do we have a key to uncover it? That's what New York Times best-selling author Jonathan Cahn is doing. He's talking about those very issues and he takes us on an epic journey. We're going to talk about what he does in this movie releasing. Jonathan, it's such a delight to have you. Welcome back.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Thank you, Tim. It's my joy. Thank you.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Rabbi, as we get started, I think you and I would agree, what we're seeing in culture, it's stunning. It's tragic. It's horrifying. From the killing of 62 plus what million babies since the Roe versus Wade decision, religious liberty infringement, I'm thinking about censorship, suppression. The challenges, the parental rights, the wars and rumors of war that are going on, spiritual apathy. Jonathan, what does that do inside of you? What keeps you awake at night?

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: It's a double thing for me, because on one hand I'm grieved by what's happening to America. I'm not afraid of the future, because I know the Lord, but I'm grieved by what's... grieve for my children, for what's happening to this nation and where it's going. At the same time I also know that it's going according to God's warning, and I know there's a pattern, I know there's a progression. I pray that America turns from that. But without that, I'm not totally surprised. It's just that the details sometimes surprise me. I say, how can they be doing this now? Don't they know? How can they be calling this evil and this good, and yet the Bible says it.

Dr. Tim Clinton: That first book that you wrote, The Harbinger, it talked about the nine harbingers, you relate back to ancient Israel. Yesterday we talked about it. It means a foretelling, maybe a warning of things to come. It's God's way of saying, listen, straighten up, get this thing right. Repent. Do whatever's necessary to turn from these ways, from this falling away from God. Jonathan, as you began unpacking that, and you led us from 9/11 up to 2020. It was a very sobering piece because you were connecting dots that just were shocking really. Isn't it amazing how that you can find the work of God like that?

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Maybe God chooses the least likely. And I could never reproduce how any of these books happen, starting with The Harbinger and onward, because it just happens. I remember once I'm lying on my bed, my wife, Renata, is sleeping, and three things come to my head and I'm thinking, wait, can that be? I don't know if that is. It's like, wait, that this is... And I sneak out of bed. I go to another room with my laptop. I look on the web and then I'm just sitting there, blown away, I said Lord, every single one of them was the case. And I am the first one to be blown away. And I'm blown away by the fact that God is so exact. He's so precise. He's so sovereign, that even those who are against Him do His thing, like we talked yesterday.

And so, it shows me the sovereignty of God, that He is truly in control. So yeah, I'm blown away. I don't know how it happens. I just have to say, Lord, I just don't want to mess... Once I was talking to Dr. Dobson and I'll never forget what he said, we were talking about the success he's had. He said, I just don't want to mess it up, and I don't want to mess it up, Lord. So, I said, "Lord, you just tell me." And by His grace, I stumble over it.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Jonathan, as you were working on The Harbingers of Things to Come, this movie that's releasing on May 12th.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes. This week.

Dr. Tim Clinton: You and Dr. Dobson had a conversation up to 2020.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Clinton: The events that unfolded since then. Jonathan, what were some of the things that now really continue to play into this narrative here?

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: I'll give you one example. The first part starts with The Harbinger, but then it goes somewhere else. One of the harbingers, you mentioned it, is the harbinger of the terrorist. When the judgment came on ancient Israel, it came not just in the form of an enemy. It was literally an attack of terrorism, because the ones who did it were the Assyrians. The ancient Assyrians, you can read in any history book, they are the fathers of terrorism. They invented terror. They did things as an act of terrorists. So, that's the sign. So, when 9/11 came on America, our strike, it came not just in an enemy attack, it was literally an attack of terrorism, terrorist. And not only that, they came from the same part of the world as the ancient Assyrians, and the ancient of Assyrians carried the attack out speaking Acadian, which is a dead language, but the one sister language of it is alive today, it's Arabic.

So, they were literally speaking that from the same part of the world. And so it happened, that's a sign of the terrorists, but then what happens after that? After the strike comes, the pattern is, God gives the nation a period of time to come back to Him in mercy, come back to Him or head to judgment. Well, with Israel, it looked like they had beaten it back, we're good, we're coming back stronger. And until the window of time began to end. And then what happened is the terrorist returned, and everything they tried to do to push it back without God was undone. The terrorist returned now, and it was judgment. Well, when America responded to 9/11, it was the same thing. It's one thing to respond, but without coming back to God, "hey, we're going to do it all our... We're going to get better without God," not going to happen.

And so, we beat back the terrorist temporarily. We got them out of Afghanistan. So I always wondered Tim, just like I always wondered about the year 2020 because of the template, I always wondered that would and when would Afghanistan be undone, because that's where it all started? Well, it happened this last autumn it happened. What happened is the terrorist returned. First of all, if you see that, it's an ominous on. So what happened is the Taliban returned, not just the Taliban, but Al-Qaeda returned, all those who did 9/11 returned back there. That is a bad sign, but here's the next thing. I said, when did that begin? It began when the Secretary of State of America went to Qatar to have meetings with the Taliban, to tell them that we are pulling out and here's what's going to happen. And that's when it was undone, it was made official.

When did the Secretary of State arrive in Qatar to do this? When did it all begin? It began on September 11th, 2020, 19 years to the exact date. Now we talked yesterday about the 19th year and how significant. Well, this is the exact day. And so the return of the terrorist is a very bad sign, because what it's saying is what happened in 9/11, not only could happen again, but it could be much, much greater.

Dr. Tim Clinton: When I think about what happened in Afghanistan and what we're seeing now unfolding Ukraine and the world stage, a lot of people are talking about America's power shrinking or we're perceived as weak in the midst of it. And alliances are being made. Jonathan, does that get your attention?

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's very significant, because one of the signs of a nation that, under the shakings, is decline and fall. This what happened to ancient Israel, decline. God said, if you follow me, you will become the, to Israel, you'll be the most blessed nation. Your enemies will flee from before you. But He says, but if you turn against me, you're going to be fleeing from your enemies, and your enemy's going to be lifted up. Well, in the same period where America... America was at its height. And in the same period in that time, it started turning away from God. And so what's happened is God says, I will raise up your... The enemies of America have been rising up. China has been rising up to rival America. Russia is making its move because it's not afraid.

And so, we're watching if we don't, and I've warned this, and even what we spoke about yesterday about the Pentagon was the beginning of America's rise. Well, while we saw the warning of the Pentagon, and that is that, if we don't turn back to God, the American age that most of us were born in, America as the superpower of the world, is going to come to an end. And yes, it gets my attention. And if America goes, what is going to happen to the world?

Dr. Tim Clinton: Jonathan, I want to go back to the COVID-19 piece just for a moment. You talked about the significance of that 19.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Do you think the prophet Jeremiah, when he spoke about the plague that would come upon the land, he talked about the nation's murder of its children as one of the reasons for judgment?

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes.

Dr. Tim Clinton: When I think of what we're seeing culture right now, we talk about 60, 62 million babies being murdered. But now we're seeing conversations in states like New York, California, Colorado, Maryland, and more, Virginia, talking about infanticide. Abortion up to birth, and sometimes after birth.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Look how fast things have gone, because it was only a little while ago that when New York passed that gruesome law, which was up to birth, it caused a moral revulsion among so many people in America. Now, they're talking about going farther. California is speaking about in the way the law is worded that children can be killed up to a 28 period day after birth. Maryland is doing the same law. And here's the thing, yes, connected to that Jeremiah spoke a lot about the murder of your children. And that is something that always brings judgment. And we've said this and we know this, you cannot do that and not have repercussions. Well, interesting because if you remember when New York did that gruesome law, they stood up and cheered and the governor of New York, he's not governor anymore, but he ordered that the harbinger, that tower at ground zero, was one of the harbingers, that it be lit up in celebration, lit up pink to celebrate the killing of babies. He did that.

Now, it was a year later, that was 2019, COVID comes to America, comes to the world, but becomes to America and specifically, and it actually hit us worse. And the thing is that they identified patient zero, the first official case of COVID in America. And so it made headlines all over America, made headlines. If you looked at that headline, you looked there's a date next to the headline. The date was January 22nd. It was one year to the exact day that was the one year anniversary when New York crossed that line and lit up the harbinger. And January 22nd, is also the day that the Supreme Court legalized the killing of children.

That is the day that was linked to COVID. And when you think about this now, and I'm not saying there's only one reason or not, but you cannot kill this many people. Abortion is the sin of the older generation against the youngest. Well, COVID specifically struck the oldest as opposed to the youngest and you know what the center of abortion in America, it's New York, it's New York City. The center of COVID became New York and New York city, same thing. And it's interesting. I'm going to throwing this out here that when they were in the midst of this and Jeremiah speaking about all these things, he says that... He cries out, that's when he says, "Is there any balm in Gilead, any balm in Gilead?"

Dr. Tim Clinton: Yes, he did.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: And bomb is a cure. And so they were seeking for a cure for the judgment that came up because of their children. When first there was a cure announced, they announced that the stock market went up 500 point, and that the name of the company was Gilead, the same thing as what Jeremiah said. And Jeremiah actually also said, there'll be so many people dying, around this where they killed the children, that they won't be able to bury them. Well, New York was the place where they killed the children. And there were so many people dying in New York City, they could not bury them. They brought them to an island and the island, Jeremiah gave that prophecy at the potter's field, where they buried them in New York is called the potter's field.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Wow. That's just stunning. Can you do a correlation for us, Jonathan, in your heart and mind about America, how God looked at Israel, how He looks at America, even in this hour?

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: I believe it's similar in the heart because of America's foundation, because of what we were, who we were. America has been the greatest of modern nations. America has been a refuge to the needy, blessed the house of Israel, blessed the children of Israel, spread the gospel. But now we've turned so far that we're not lighting the world, we're darkening with pornography, we're darkening with immorality, with gender, we're corrupting much of the world. That's what happened to Israel. And God cried out to Israel. And He said, why? Why will you be struck again? Why are you doing this to yourself? I believe His heart is weeping for the children who are gone, weeping for America and calling back and saying, don't be judged. And He's calling God's people too, because the other part is that if we were the light we were supposed to be, I mean, if most of the church was, I don't think it could be this dark.

So, God is calling us as well to repent of our idols, of seeking prosperity over God and to become the lights we're supposed to be. And I'll share this because in the movie, I'm kind of taking people around the country to these sites of mystery, where there are signs and embedded concerning America. One of the places, we sail up to an island in the Massachusetts Bay. And if you remember, John Winthrop was called the grandfather of America. He did this amazing thing. He's a Puritan, 1630 comes across and he leads the *exes and he gives this amazing word, prophetic. He says, "We are a city on a hill. We shall be a city on a hill." Now that's where they got it from. Of course, it's from Jesus. Reagan quoted it. It was all John Winthrop putting it to America, where he said, "If we follow God, we will be the most blessed people in the world. We'll be the most prosperous, the most powerful," all happened, all came true.

But people don't read on to what he said. He said, but if we turn away from God, then the judgements that came on Israel will come upon us. And he's actually alluding to Deuteronomy 28. When God says, "Do this, you'll be the most blessed people. If you turn away, this is going to happen." Well, one of the things that it says it's going to happen if you turn away from God in Deuteronomy 28, that John Winthrop was alluding to, it says an enemy will come from a far away land like an eagle in the sky, and he will come, as Hebrew says, he will come swooping down upon you. That you think of 9/11, the very first plane that began 9/11 had an image on it, an image of an eagle, specifically swooping down as it began.

That word was appointed in every synagogue in New York, just a few days before 9/11. They were chanting it all over. The enemy's going to come like an eagle. But let me go further. John Winthrop, actually, when he spoke of a city on a hill, there actually was a city that he saw as a city on the hill, and that was Boston. He founded Boston, and he became the governor. And the thing is he had an island right off of Boston and he would pray there. He would worship there. He would pray for America. He'd pray on. Well, whatever happened to John Winthrop's island? John Winthrop's island in the 20th century became an airport, Logan airport, the site that 9/11 began from the island of John Winthrop. Where the enemy came like an eagle took off from John Winthrop's island.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Amazing. Jonathan, as we step back and scan everything we've been talking about. And I think about the future of our country, I know there are a lot of moms maybe out there listening and dads who are concerned about their children and their children's children. Will they grow up in a country with the freedoms and joys that they have lived with? In this hour, I know again, many, many are on their knees crying out to God, especially as we look to the fall and beyond. What will happen? What will be the future of our country? Jonathan, this new movie that you're coming out with, you take people on a pretty epic journey.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Tell us a little bit about what we can expect if we go to the theater.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: It's May 12th, one night. May 19th too, and that's the first time I've ever said it because they just told me before this. Tim, the people who did this found footage of things that I spoke about that's actually... You're going to see the prophecies unfold. Also, there's something that I have never revealed or never shown. It's almost like prophecy in an image and a film that happened. It actually happened at the foot of the Statue of Liberty, that foreshadowed all of it that I've never shown before. You're going to see it. It's going to be taking from past, present and future and what we need to do, but also it's going to be the hope because God gives a specific hope. You just said it, this is the burden of my heart. I have three boys. I'm burdened for the future.

If there is going to be hope, what do we need to do now? How do we need to stand? What do we need to do to be strong? And what do we need to do that can touch America and pray for revival. So that's all going to be there too. It's going to be really everything and ultimately leading it to salvation. I mean, it's everything.

Dr. Tim Clinton: How beautiful. I know inside the movie itself, you're going to talk about riddles. Jonathan, give us a tease on one or two of those.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Well, I mentioned, about what was said the day after 9/11, that Isaiah 9:10 harbinger Scripture that was proclaimed from Capitol Hill. But years later, after The Harbinger came out, Obama came down to ground zero and he came down to the harbinger, the tower, they gave him the beam that was going to crown the tower, and they said, write words on it. And he could write anything he wants on it. What he writes without knowing what he's doing. He writes in American paraphrase, Isaiah 9:10. Eight Hebrew words that brought judgment to Israel. Obama writes eight English words and they match the Hebrew words, and actually the middle of his vow, the eight words is we rebuild, the middle of the Hebrew is [inaudible 00:19:40], which means we rebuild. The highest words in America are basically the words of the harbinger of defiance of God.

Now what happened to the Supreme Court in 2015 when they basically struck down marriage, actually was linked to an ancient Hebrew mystery and a date that God gave in the Bible that was signifying what's going to happen in the nation. So, there is so much that happened since The Harbinger, there is just so much.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Jonathan, I think all this comes back to a special piece of Scripture. 2nd Chronicle 7:14, which says, "If my people which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven. I will forgive their sin and I'll heal their land." Jonathan, speak to that. What's in your heart when you think of that Scripture?

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: That's actually the very Scripture by which God changed the course of... Actually saved America in the civil war, and actually even in our lifetime. When Ronald Reagan, there was a real change that happened. People were praying. When he put his hand on the Bible to swear as president, you know what his hand was on? 'If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves.' And literally, the course of America was changed in that time. Here's the thing. You want to sum that up? It's my people, it's resting on us and it's resting on the word if. And God is real. I've seen him literally change the course of America, and His word is good, but we have to take it at His word. He said, my people that's us now. And He said, if, so the question is, are we going to do this?

And it says, if we turn, not just the culture turns, but if we become the people we're supposed to be, if we become the lights and we stop worrying about what people say and think, and rise and shine and become the lights we're supposed to become, let the chips fall where they may, because these are the times that produce greatness for those who will be great. God is challenging all of us to be great. And you know the other thing is, if you look at the verse before that, it says, if I send a plague on the land, then it says, if my people.

So, listen, we got the plague, let's become the people and let's do what we have to do. Be strong, be of good courage, and you are still on the winning side. Be the person God chose you to be. This is our hour. That's the part that excites me. God has called us to rise. I want to rise. I don't want to miss it. I want to become a... The grays are disappearing, and the dark's getting darker, that means the lights have to get brighter. Let's be that people. Let's rise to it.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Jonathan, when you started your event, the gathering event in Washington, DC, it started with the sound of trumpets.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Which was about the gathering of God's people. Something stirring, something's going on. I think of the words of Richard Foster, "Heaven and earth are standing on tiptoes, awaiting the emerging of God's people for such a time as this."

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. Tim, let's be it. God's given us an amazingly dramatic time. Let's rise to it. This is our hour to become that people.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Rabbi, as we close, I just wanted to ask you, what's the future hold for you. What are you working on?

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Well, thanks. Thanks for asking. I'd ask this is because I think this is the Lord that... You guys who are listening, please pray. I'm working on the new book and this new book I can't say the title yet. It's kind of under wraps, but it's going to be the most explosive book I've ever written. If you think other ones were okay, but this is going to be the most explosive. It's touching everything outright. And if we don't speak up now, we're all going to be silent. So, Tim, they're planning on at the end of the movie, because they're holding it till then. At the end, they'll reveal the title and the cover, but that's it. But it will be that, so please pray for me on this that I do what I have to do and for God's grace on this.

Dr. Tim Clinton: We will pray with you.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Thank you. Thank you, Tim

Dr. Tim Clinton: Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, may God strengthen your heart.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Thank you.

Dr. Tim Clinton: And voice for Him for such a time as this.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Thank you, Tim.

Dr. Tim Clinton: On behalf of Dr. Dobson, his wife, Shirley, their family, the entire Family Talk team, Rabbi, we again salute you and thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule and pray that God will do something supernatural through the release of the movie. Again, this May 12th.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes. The Harbingers Of Things To Come. It's everywhere. And Tim, thank you. And listen, it's truly a joy and you keep strong in what you're doing, which is so crucial too. And it's an honor to serve in the same harvest with people like you, Tim. So, thank you.

Roger Marsh: Rabbi Cahn is right. As Christians, we are called to stand up for what is right and true. God has made us ambassadors of the gospel here on earth. And we cannot take that calling lightly, especially in these tumultuous times where so much of culture is calling evil good, and good evil. If you'd like to go see Rabbi Jonathan Cahn's new movie, The Harbingers Of Things To Come, go to You can learn more about the film, watch the trailer and even buy tickets there. The movie is only in theaters on Thursday, May 12th and again on Thursday, May 19th, so don't wait. That website once again is

And of course, you can always go to and select the broadcast tab, and you'll find a link for the movie's website. You can listen to any part of the interview you might have missed, and you can learn more about Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. That's and then select the broadcast tab. Well, thanks for joining us for Family Talk today. To stay connected, remember you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I'm Roger Marsh. And on behalf of our team here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, God's richest blessings to you and your family. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Family Talk.

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