As Roe Crumbles, We Look to the Road Ahead - Part 2 (Transcript)

Dr. James Dobson: You're listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I am that James Dobson and I'm so pleased that you've joined us today.

Roger Marsh: Well, welcome back once again to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh and on behalf of everyone here at the JDFI thank you for making us a part of your day. By the way, if you like what you hear on this program, please tell a friend and also join us on Facebook to comment about today's program. Just search for @DrJamesDobsonsFamilyTalk when you go to

Well, today we are continuing with the balance of an amazing conversation we recorded just last week. It's a very special program for you where we present an interview that was recorded backstage at a Dr. James Dobson Family Institute event here in Colorado Springs. The event was organized by Dr. Dobson and it included some powerful speakers and culture warriors. And one of those invited to speak was Janet Porter. Now, if you are not familiar with her name, you may be familiar with the work that she has done for the pro-life movement. Janet Porter is the Heartbeat Bill Pro-Life champion. Our Dr. Tim Clinton caught up with Janet Porter to talk about the amazing turn of events this past year. By the way, if you missed part one from yesterday, just go to our broadcast page at to listen to day one or part one.

Now, I'd like to reset the interview and subject for you as follows. Janet Porter is the founder of Faith2Action, the word faith, the number two, and the word action. As I mentioned earlier, she's also the architect of the Pro-Life Heartbeat Bill. Now, this bill ensures that if a heartbeat is detected, the baby is protected. Heartbeat Bills have been introduced in 30 states all across the US and 14 of those states have actually passed this legislation. Janet chronicled her decade-long battle to save babies in her book called, A Heartbeat Away. She played a vital role in amplifying the pro-life message during a decades-long fight against the pro-abortion industry. Her efforts were vital in expanding public awareness of God's design for the beginning of life, which then undergirded the overturning of Roe versus Wade and moved the fight for life from the Supreme Court back to the States where, quite frankly, it belongs.

Now, before she embarked on this pro-life mission, Janet also served as Legislative Director for Ohio Right to Life. While there, she successfully lobbied for the passage of the nation's first partial birth abortion ban. She also worked as National Director of the Center for Reclaiming America, founded by Dr. D. James Kennedy. She's appeared on news programs all across the spectrum, from CNN's Anderson Cooper 360, to Fox and Friends, and NBC's Today Show. Now, let's rejoin Dr. Tim and Janet Porter right here on Family Talk.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Janet, welcome back. What a delightful conversation we had yesterday. I can't wait to unpack where we're going to go today. Janet, we talked yesterday about the Dobbs decision that happened this year and how stunning it was. Do you remember where you were? I just want to go back to that, because again, it's such an historical moment.

Janet Porter: Sure. I am on the board of an organization that is called the National Association of Christian Lawmakers. And it turns out they were actually giving me an award that day. My favorite part of the award is the date on the bottom. It's June 24th. That's the day Roe crumbled to the ground. And as I was standing there realizing I had just seen my decade-long goal of the Heartbeat Law in Ohio become law and elsewhere, I saw my lifelong goal of Roe versus Wade crumbling to the ground. I just stood there and said, "This is the best day of my life," because what we have been working our entire lives to see, in fact, happened. And so on one side was Senator Jason Rapert from Arkansas, who passed the nation's first Heartbeat Law in Arkansas in 2013.

And over on the other side was Bryan Hughes, who had passed the latest Heartbeat Bill in Texas that saved a stadium full of children, 20,000 lives before that day, before Roe ever came down. And so, it was just an incredible moment of celebration. And I remember turning to someone and said, "Roe is dead. Roe is dead. Babies will live." And it was just that moment where, I mean, everybody was crying. Everyone was celebrating. But it was all the players who had been a part of these efforts in states around the country. And that's where I was. A day I will never forget.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Janet, this again, as we talked yesterday, means that at the federal level, Roe is done.

Janet Porter: It's done.

Dr. Tim Clinton: State level is where the battles now are taking place. And as we try to understand it, it's unconscionable, but it's happening that you've got some states now, they're "becoming sanctuaries" for those who are seeking abortion. And Janet, they're even going to a point where openly now, we're seeing conversation about taking the life of a baby up to its birthday. I mean-

Janet Porter: And beyond. I mean, look at California. It's 28 days. I mean, they're doing that in Michigan. You can't even investigate infanticide. If you find a baby in the dumpster, you cannot investigate what happened. This is where it's come to.

Dr. Tim Clinton: It's like, how did we get to that place where we're having those kind of conversations? And see if I'm right on this. An overwhelming majority of Americans do not want partial birth abortion in this country.

Janet Porter: They do not. And yet that's the push. So you realize the weed and tares are mature, that you've got the fruits of the evil are now being seen. But what we need to do now is rise up and have the children of God grow up and be mature and say, "You know what? All power and all authority was given to Jesus." That means somebody has none of it. So he gave it to us. We need to now stand up, rise up, and speak up, and realize that we have the power and authority that Jesus gave, that we have the spirit that raised Jesus from the dead in us, right now. That's what we need to understand.

And we can run, literally like someone left the gate open, because there are now no more restrictions on protecting children. And you may live in a purple state. You may live in a blue state. Let me tell you, when we passed this, people said, "Why in the world did you pass this in Ohio, a purple state? I mean, I would've started in Louisiana or somewhere else. I mean, come on." But that was home. That was my home state. And so-

Dr. Tim Clinton: And look what God did.

Janet Porter: And what we did then is took that message around the country. And it says in Revelations, by the way, "That the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." So the testimony of what Jesus did prophesized to other states to do it. Like I said, "If the purple state of Ohio can pass a Heartbeat Bill, surely the ruby red State of Texas with a Republican, how a Senate and Governor can do it!" And I think we shamed them into it, frankly. But that's the message, is that, "Look, no matter where you live, you may live in California or New York, I say at least introduce a Heartbeat Bill and here's why." It's like putting a billboard around your state that abortion stops a beating heart. Only with a Heartbeat Bill, a beating heart will stop abortion. That alone, just that message alone, will save lives. When you bring in the youngest to ever testify, you're going to see lives saved, as we did in Ohio.

We saw it in Congress, where even those who were protesting us were literally crying as they saw that baby's heartbeat. That is the message. We're reaching the hearts of Americans. And I remember when we first did that in Ohio, the pro-aborts were going crazy, "Janet and her antics..." And I said, "Put the camera in front of my face." I said, "Isn't it sad that to defend your position you have to deny science?" That's sad. You got to run from technology. And I want to tell Stacey Abrams, "You know what? Guess what? We're not manufacturing the sound. There's no man behind the curtain manufacturing the heartbeat sound." And that's, incidentally, the sound when we were working on the Michigan Heartbeat Bill in the State House.

This came organically. We didn't organize this. But as we're looking around, we hear everybody giving [inaudible 00:07:42] this noise. And it was resonating through the entire State House of the heartbeat. It says it all it. It's really, because everyone understands if there's a heartbeat, there's life.

Dr. Tim Clinton: I want people to know, again, as we ended the broadcast yesterday, we talked about your book, A Heartbeat Away, really, a manual to understand the journey here and what took place to help get this movement going. And now there are states out there where we need people to show up and show out. They need to stand boldly and be courageous. And Janet, I know you're looking for warriors on the front lines. Talk about just some of what's inside your heart and what you're praying for and what you're hoping God will do.

Janet Porter: You know how Jesus sent the disciples out two by two? There were times when it was really just me and Lori Viars, my general in this race. We stood together from start to finish. And many others wavered, because when we had to go negative, when we had to expose the rhinos who were using elections, who were using babies to win elections, instead of using elections to protect babies, we exposed them. We ran against them. We ran ads against them. We did mailings. I mean, we had one mailing, it's in this book. And it says, "What's the difference between a pro-abortion Democrat and a Republican rhino? Answer, not much. 20,000 babies will be just as dead." These are the kinds of messages we had to deliver to expose those obstructionists who had an R behind their name. And so what I know is this, it doesn't take an army to do this. You want the one who's going to stand and be unwavering, who has nothing to lose.

They can't say, "Well, if you don't do this, we're going to take away your privileges, and your perks, and your committee chairmanship." No, we want somebody who's willing to stand. And that's what we found in Ohio. I mean, you need to be willing to do whatever it takes. I tell the story about how we had had one veto in Ohio by Governor Kasich. And we knew that we were facing another one. And I was driving down to Columbus and we were getting our Heartbeat Bill on the vote, up to a vote for the fourth time. We introduced it the fourth time. And we needed 60, a super majority. Well, we had 50 out of 99. We knew we could do that. But we needed 60. And I remember telling somebody on driving on the way down, I said, "This is going to take an act of God." And they said, "Isn't that what you were counting on all along?"

And Tom Dulay, who by the way, Tom Dulay, who was our MVP of the Federal Heartbeat Bill got saved by watching Dr. Dobson's focus on the Family Film Series. And so he became our MVP. And he taught me some things like putting together a whip list and turning members into whips and saying, "Can you get these members? Can you try these members?" And by the day before the vote, by the day of the vote, we were maybe two or three votes short. I met with our Democrat champion, Bill Patman. We needed to get another Democrat that we had never had before. I said, "If you get this guy, try him. We got 20 minutes before the vote. Text me if you get him." The session begins. The text comes in. Simply says, "Done." I'm like, "Oh, my goodness. We got a shot to override this veto." And they called a caucus right then and there. And I go down and I'm trying to get a few more votes if I could get them. And he comes and hugs me. I just hug him.

And he goes," You know what's happening right now? The Democrats called for a recess of this session, because they're trying to threaten this guy's political career, that he dare not vote for the Heartbeat Bill." And I said, "Is he going to hold firm?" He says, "I don't know." And we held hands and we prayed. This African American Democrat, who's twice as tall as I am, we're praying outside the chamber, holding hands. And I go back, the vote is cast. Remember, I need 60 [inaudible 00:10:59] and the vote is 58-35. I'm like, "Ah, man, I thought we had more votes than that." It was, "Ah!" I start looking at the phone. We go downstairs, we're looking at the phone. 10 minutes go by. And the Democrat that they threatened, we had already lost, the Democrat that they threatened, went forward and voted yes on the bill. We're now 59-35! We're one vote away. We got three bills on the roster. And there's a lady who's missing.

I said, "Why is Marilyn Slaby's name in orange?" They said, "Well, maybe she's not here." I said, "No, I gave her a gift bag with the heart chocolates, and the talking points, and the little heartbeat pin." And I said, "She was here." And she left. Turns out that her husband... I get her husband's number. I call him. They said, "Oh, maybe she flipped." I said, "No, no, no. She was a co-sponsor. Her husband was a co-sponsor before her, when he held the seat." So I get his number. I call him. I told him, "We've got one hour to get her back. She's our swing vote. We need her." And he says, "We're two hours away. That's impossible." Don't you tell me that's impossible, because then I'm going to look for the God of the impossible to step up and do what only he can do. And I said, "Can you pull off the road? Because I'm on my way to get her right now." And I started taking off running.

There is now a blizzard. It's snowing so hard. I'm running up two and a half blocks to get to my car. I get to my car. I'm out of breath. I don't have my keys. And some guy comes up to me, he says, "Two and a half blocks back," he says, "you dropped these in the crosswalk. Here you go." So I get these keys. I drive north and I remember, wait a minute, my intern, his mother was an intern of mine back in the day and she used to give a Wayne Holmes County right-to-life report. I said, "Hey, she's at a Bob Evans restaurant near your house. Can you have her pick up our swing vote? Drive south while I drive north." And it turns out that if you know the rules, you rule. And they knew the rule that if you call for a recess, not an adjournment, if you just recess it, two members can hold a session.

And so I get to the State House. One of them is our champion. Ron Hood has the gavel in his hand. Calls for House Bill 253, the third consideration. And the lady Marilyn Slaby, still wearing her coat, signs the form to bring the Heartbeat Bill to a veto-proof majority. I just fell to my knees and started sobbing. That's the God of the impossible. But it takes doing whatever it takes to say, "You know what? You want to end abortion? Then you need to say, 'I'm willing to do whatever it takes.'" If it means driving through a blizzard to bring back your swing vote, you do that or you can forever wish you had. That's where we are.

Dr. Tim Clinton: That's called faith to action. That really is. You're listening to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. I'm Dr. Tim Clinton, co-host here at JDFI and Family Talk. Our special guest, Janet Porter, she's the founder and president of Faith2Action, a pro-life legislative advocacy organization. And she's the architect behind the Pro-Life Bill that we're hearing so much about and what God is moving in and through for such a time as this. Janet, I wanted to ask you, fast forward to where we're at in this moment. You have the current administration saying if they get the House and the Senate, they will codify Roe. A lot of people are saying, "What does that mean?" Janet, can you explain it? And what does that do in your spirit?

Janet Porter: Well, I think right now I just want everyone to listen for just a moment. If you hear nothing else, hear this. We are at a moment in time where we could literally lose every single pro-life law that we have ever passed in every single state. It could absolutely be gone overnight, where this codifying, so-called codifying Roe, it would kill children from conception until birth. And perhaps beyond, as Prop 3 is being considered in Michigan. It is basically killing every child who is slated for abortion, removing every bit of protection from them. And I'm going to tell you something, that we've got a lot to overcome right now. We've got the voter fraud issues that are happening, the election fraud that's happening. We've got to rise up. And as Steve Bannon, who the FBI has come after, has said," We've got to mess with their algorithms."

If they're planning to steal this election, we got to turn out in such numbers that they can't believe it, that we come and show up, by the way. Don't just mail in your ballot or drop them off. Show up in person. Sign up to be a ballot watcher, to be a poll worker so that you can keep an eye on what's happening. Because right now, there's a lot of people saying there's going to be a big red wave. Well, there better be, because if there's not, we're going to wish that we had done everything we can. But now's the time to do it. And I'm talking to churches that have been quiet on this issue, that if... You know the Dietrich Bonhoeffer quote, "Not to speak, is to speak. Not to act, is to act." God will not hold us guiltless if we are silent in this hour.

We are on the precipice of potentially losing everything or potentially gaining it back. That's where we are. And if we don't give it everything we had, our children, our grandchildren and millions of unborn children will suffer and die as a result.

Dr. Tim Clinton: I was going to ask you, Janet, I mean, you've got a little vinegar in you. There's a lot stirring up inside of your heart. And I'm just wondering what God's putting in your heart in this moment. I know these are, again, it's like the best of times and the worst of times.

Janet Porter: That's what's happening. Yes. And that's what the Bible says we're going into, that deep darkness will cover the earth. But arise and shine, for the light has come. Jesus is the light of the world, but he is in us. And we have the power and authority that he gave us. We better start using it. We better. Yes, the Philistines occupy our land. But we need to not be like the CNN Canaanite News Network. If David had a fake news during his day, they would've talked about Goliath and how big he was, and undefeated, and take a look at that sword. But that's not what David did. He looked at this giant and said, "Who is this uncircumcised Philistine that dare defy the armies of the living God?"

I'm telling you, "We serve the God who sits above the circle of the earth," it says in Isaiah. And what else he says is that, "Its inhabitants are as grasshoppers." So all these giants that seem so big, so daunting, so overwhelming, they're like grasshoppers to our God. And we serve the God of the impossible.

Dr. Tim Clinton: He sits in the heavens and he basically smiles and laughs at the foolishness of men.

Janet Porter: That's right. He said in Psalm 2, I believe it was, "Ask of me, and I will give you the nations." I'm asking for the United States of America. And I believe God is not done with America. And you know what? I remember, I was speaking in Michigan. I said, "If only there was a way that we could get God to hear from heaven, to forgive our sins and heal our land, if only there was some way that we could do that..." And we know the list. It says in Second Chronicles 7:14, "We're to humble ourselves and pray, to seek his face and turn from our wicked ways." Every election we've ever prayed that prayer, that we bring up that verse. But every election, we've never had, where we have right now, Roe in the ash heap of history, where we have nearly 20 something states now that are protecting every child or nearly every child.

That's never happened in my lifetime, where we could actually pray and say, "You know what? We have turned from our wicked ways to the extent that we can right now. And we're going to continue to do it." But now, the curse over America with Roe versus Wade is broken. And the people of God need to rise up and take the land. That's it. Take it back. You know what? Someone here at this conference, they quoted the verse that said, "The heavens he has given to the Lord, but the earth he has given to the sons of man." The earth, he's given to us. We're supposed to be running this place. We're supposed to be occupying until he comes. We have to realize that every word in that Bible is true. That greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. We're supposed to occupy. We're supposed to realize that we can do all things through Christ, who strengthens us. It's either true or it's not true.

And I'm banking everything I have that the word of God is true. And that we're going to see God show up in ways that make a watching world look on in amazement. And they will be astounded by what God's about to do in America.

Dr. Tim Clinton: These are unprecedented times. I don't think we've ever seen or witnessed what we're seeing unfold before our eyes. It's shocking. But be encouraged, God's also at work. He's moving. And Janet, I'm thinking from Maine down to Florida, up to Ohio, maybe down to Texas, up to Montana, out on the West Coast into California, up into Washington, over into Hawaii, who knows, God's stirring. He's stirring in the hearts of people. And Janet, I can't help but believe that there are many listening right now who would say, "I'd love to learn more. I'd love to know what to do and how I can be a point of light in my community, maybe in my church, maybe just with my girlfriends." Can you share a little bit more about your ministry and your resources? And certainly, let's talk again about A Heartbeat Away and what a gift it is to the church.

Janet Porter: Thank you. One thing I want to say is that a lot of people are praying for revival. But we need to stand up and be a revival. You know how people say, "You know what? I just want God to save America." You know what? God doesn't sweep in and save a nation. He works through people. That's it. He has given that assignment to us. We're the ones who are supposed to step out. We're the ones who are supposed to occupy and take the land. And that's the message. And so I want to tell you that I don't care if you're the wallflower who's afraid to give a speech. That was me. If he can use me, he can use anybody. And so we've got the plan on how to do that. It's not just on the Heartbeat Bill. It's about doing the impossible, seeing the impossible bow to the name of Jesus. That's what we're supposed to do. We owe that to a watching world.

They want to know if, is this Bible true? Is this God real? And can we have what it says we can have? Every word in it is ironclad. Take it to the bank. We can do it. But it's going to take our involvement. It's going to take us doing whatever it takes to partner with God, to see what they said was impossible. I mean, I started out, they said, "The Heartbeat Bill, that's impossible." And guess what? What was once impossible is now inevitable. And that's what we have the ability to do. You can go to F2A is the shortcut to faith, the number two, You can get the book. You can see what we're doing. No matter what state you're in, you can engage in this battle. And we can, again, if we can see abortion and Roe versus Wade crumble to the ground, to the ash heap of history, we can take our country back. And that's what's about to happen.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Janet, as we close, I just wanted to ask you, do you mind maybe with our listeners, let's join together and would you pray? This is a moment. I mean, this is a moment. And we earnestly need to cry out to God to do something. And let's close our broadcast by going there.

Janet Porter: I'd like to just remind people that faith is the pipeline for God's power. And what I've seen God do, I mean, once you've seen Goliath fall, there is nobody that can tell you it can't be done. And so with that in mind, seeing God do the impossible, seeing Heartbeat Bills and Roe versus Wade crash to the ground, let's pray with that in mind.

Father, I thank you that you are the God of the impossible. Your words are true. And I've seen it firsthand. And so Father, I pray that you would raise up your people, that they would be equipped and that you would give them courage, that they would not just pray for it, but they would take courage and they would stand up and they would say, "I don't care what you call me, I don't care what you do, I don't care what you say, I am going to stand for truth. I'm going to stand for righteousness. I'm going to advance the kingdom of God and no longer merely react, and respond, and defend a shrinking piece of real estate."

And so Father, I just pray, raise up an army to take America back, where we will once again be a net exporter of the gospel around the globe. And that we will come into everything you've called us to be. Every page that you've put in our book, as it says in Psalm 39, "All the days of all of our life was written in this book," I want every page. And God, if there are pages that people don't want, we pray give it to us. We want to see your will fulfilled on this earth. Use us in this hour and give us back America so that we can advance your kingdom with freedom, and liberty, and with life, with children who will live and not die and declare the works of the Lord. In Jesus' name, amen.

Dr. Tim Clinton: And God I pray that that would happen. Earnestly, we contend for that. We love you and thank you for your steadfast love in our lives. May we be bold and courageous for you, to stand for truth. I pray all that in the strong name of Jesus. Amen. What a delightful conversation. Did you really have three hits of espresso before we got started?

Janet Porter: My maiden name is Folger and I don't even drink coffee.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Oh, listen, Janet, that was a delightful conversation. On behalf of Dr. Dobson, his wife, Shirley, the entire team, we just tip the hat to you and pray that God would continue to speak words of life, hope, strength, encouragement, boldness into your heart and to stand strong.

Janet Porter: And on behalf of Faith2Action, I just want to say to Dr. Dobson, to your whole team, to Shirley and everyone, thank you. Thank you for standing with us when few others did. He was a stalwart defender of life, a bold and courageous leader in our time. And I am honored to call him my friend. And I'm just very grateful for being a part of these victories that happened, because he was a part of making them happen.

Dr. Tim Clinton: Thank you for joining us.

Janet Porter: Thanks.

Roger Marsh: Well, what an inspiring way to conclude this conversation featuring Dr. Tim Clinton and Pro-Life advocate, Janet Porter, right here on Family Talk. By the way, if you'd like to learn more about Janet's ministry or if you'd like to access any part of yesterday's or today's interview, simply go to That's When you get to our broadcast page, you'll find so much valuable information there, including a directory of every program we have ever produced here at the JDFI and Family Talk. So please check it out at

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Well, that's it for today. Hope you'll join us again tomorrow for a powerful interview featuring Dr. Tim Clinton and Pastor Sammy Rodriguez on the importance of the Christian and underserved minority vote. You will not want to miss this conversation, so be sure to join us then. Until next time, I'm Roger Marsh. And for Dr. Dobson and all of us here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, keep praying. And may God continue to richly bless you and your family as you grow deeper in your relationship with him.

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