Anne Graham Lotz: Some people have it more publicly than others, but we all are called to be followers of Jesus, to witness to our faith, to worship Him, to walk with Him, to work for Him. That can take all different avenues. I believe it's not just people who are visual or visible in the Christian community, leaders that we know as household words that are under attack. I believe all believers are under attack. I feel like what's against us in our culture is an antichrist anti God movement. When they try to redefine marriage, that was shaking their fist in God's face. When they try to redefine genders, that's shaking their fist in God's face.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Anne, I'm so with you on that. We're in a fight. Rachel-Ruth, you know what I love is I love how you come back. You understand today's generations. You know there's so much competing for our attention, for our affection. There's so much moving us away from God and ripping at the family, but you're fighting for the family. You want to challenge young families to get this right. You've got three daughters. You're in the middle of the fight. Speak to the issue of what your mom's talking about.
Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright: Well, there is, I mean, like she always says, the demons have been unleashed. They are going after this young generation and it is so sickening to me to see what's happen happening. I think that even that quarantine, when everybody had to go into their homes, it really did a number on a lot of kids, including my oldest daughter. I mean, she it really hit her hard and being confined to the house and not being able to graduate from high school, have a graduation or go to prom or anything like that.
All this was, even though we can say it was a pandemic, all this is really work of the enemy that is trying to deflate these kids' dreams and keep them from going to church on Sunday, get them used to not going into a church building on Sunday. You can just see the enemy at work here. If there was ever a time for people who know the Lord to live out their faith in front of people, it's now. We have got to show them that even in a world where compromise is just what everybody does, we have got to show them, no, we're not going to compromise. We live according to God's word in every way. We don't just pick and choose. We need to know God's word for one thing, but live according to God's word in every way.
It's heartbreaking and it's heartbreaking for me as a parent who I have from day one taught them God's word. I've brought missionaries into the home to share with them. I've done everything I can. Then to have my oldest daughter really struggling with rebellion, it's difficult. But that verse that you read, or you talked about at the very beginning, we train them up and then when they're old they'll not depart from it. That's my prayer. We keep investing, keep loving, loving, loving our kids and being that light to them, and then pray that they will come back to the words.
Dr. Tim Clinton: You guys break the book up into four key areas, witness, worship, walk, and work. We know this. The Scripture says that the Lord loves righteousness. We also know that Paul said we're to train ourself up into godliness, that we've got work to do. Just like the athlete. You're talking about athletes. We work hard every day. We bust our tail every day to try to compete and to have success. We've got to do the same thing in our faith walk. That's what you're saying here for a moment, right Rachel-Ruth?
Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright: Yes.
Dr. Tim Clinton: That it really is about you've got to pour this into our kids and it's not just about religion. There's an attunement piece here that says we've got to have a relationship with our kids, an entry points so that when they go through periods of rebellion, they know we're there in the midst of it with them. We're not abandoning them.
Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright: That's right.
Dr. Tim Clinton: We're not bailing. We're not coming at them. We're coming alongside of them with this goal.
Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright: Yes. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. In fact, I really walk around tired all the time because I stay up until 1:00 and 2:00 in the morning so many nights just counseling my girls, listening to them, giving them time. I don't rush them through a conversation because I want to go to bed. I just sit there and listen to them and pray with them and hug them and just, I want them to know I'm there for them. I love them.
I think a lot of times it does take a lot of time and it does mean sacrificing other things in your life in order to give your kids that time and attention and love that they really need. Because if they're not getting it from you, they're going to go to somebody else that's going to counsel them wrong or just do whatever they want to do, and never mind anything because nobody cares or nobody's going to give them time. It's the least we can do as parents and it's something that takes a lot of energy. You really have to go all out like you would as an athlete, like you would when you're wanting to lose weight and you're on a diet or whatever it is, we've just got to be very vigilant in that.
Anne Graham Lotz: I think one of the things Rachel-Ruth has done really well, she doesn't compromise the truth. I think parents, when they see a child in rebellion or just going a different way, we tend to move the goal post. We don't want to be so firm. We want to make it easier on them. We just let down in our stand on the truth. Rachel-Ruth has been great in that she has not backed down from the truth. She has not backed down from the boundaries that she has set or which God has set.
Dr. Tim Clinton: It must put a lot of joy in your heart to see that work in Rachel-Ruth and the girls and more. But Anne, I'll say this, the word says out of the heart and so you can't give what you don't have. If you're not spending time in the word of God, if you're not worshiping the Lord, if you don't have that vibrant relationship, you don't have anything to give. Right?
Anne Graham Lotz: That's right. I've seen Rachel-Ruth, she talks about me spending hours in the word, she does also and teaches an online Bible study that because of COVID went viral and she has over 7,000 women worldwide who in her Bible study on Tuesdays. It'll start back up in January. But I've seen her spend hours in the Word.
When you teach it, you have to spend more to in it. With everything she's got going on, she has spent hours in the word, hours on her knees and the leftover hours she spent listening to her girls. She's busy. No wonder she's tired, but that's what it takes. If our children don't receive it now, you keep quoting the verse, when they're old, they won't depart from it. But it doesn't say what happens between the time when you raise them and when they're old. There may be a time in there that they walk away from it.
Dr. Tim Clinton: I think some people would probably step back and say, "Wait a second. This is the Graham family. This should be natural. This is easy. This is automatic for them." But in the book, Rachel-Ruth, you dedicate a section to the hard work piece of grinding it. We've got to show up every day to get this thing done. If we don't show up, suit up and get after it, it's not going to happen.
Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright: It's exactly right. It does take a lot of hard work. It needs to be, like you said, out of the heart, the mouth speaks. It has to be something that's in your heart. I desperately want to know the Lord. I want to love Him. I want to make sure that I'm following, living according to his word. Because I love him. I just love Him. I think that's the key. You've got to love the Lord and then it just naturally, it's hard work, but it comes easy because you just love Him.
Dr. Tim Clinton: One of my prized possessions is a Bible of my dad. Every ounce of open space is written in. You can see his heart. You can see what God was teaching him. You can see what he preached. As I was going through the book Jesus Followers and reading the stories, what I was struck by was the authenticity of this is real life Graham family. I looked back and both sides of the family, for your girls, Rachel-Ruth, all the way back up through, but Anne, your mom and dad and the realness, even late in life, your dad, your mom, they constantly bathed in the word of God. It just flowed out of them. It's natural. I can see that coming out of you, Anne. I can see it in you, Rachel-Ruth. I can only imagine what your girls are like.
But Anne, tell us about those latter days of your dad's life, your mom's life and what really struck, what's in your heart as you reflect on them.
Anne Graham Lotz: Well, to be honest, there's a lot of grief and emptiness because nobody will take the place in my life with my parents. My husband went to Heaven about three years before my father did. Grief is real. I don't want to downplay that. But as I look back on the life of my mother and father, my father in particular, my mother seemed to have more life up until the point she went to Heaven. My father got quieter and quieter. When we would pray with him, he would come out with his preaching voice, amen. I'd read Scripture to him and he would do the same thing. When I read Scripture, you could see in his eyes the strength of his spirits, so his outward man was truly fading away, but his inner man was strong up until the end.
I don't know why God allowed my parents to linger so long in such a, to be so incapacitated. But one of the things I've wondered to him, if in doing that, they didn't go out with accolades. They didn't go out with banquets honoring them. They didn't go out with medals and awards. They went out lying in bed unable to do anything for themselves, caregivers who did everything. I wonder if it kept them focused. I wonder if it kept them humble.
My mother, she lost her eyesight before my father did through macular degeneration. She had her secretary print out Scripture versus. The letters on the page had to have been two to three inches tall so you could only get a few words on a page, but she had big black notebooks full of these words where she could read that. She had them on her bed all spread out and she'd be reading her Bible but printed out with two or three inch high letters.
Then my father, I think having seen her example, because of macular degeneration, he also could not see or read his Bible. His caregivers printed them out in big posters around his room. Even in his bathroom, he had these big posters of Scripture. "I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ." It was just precious the way they clung to the word even when they would've had an excuse not to. I can't read it. I can't see it, but they came up with practical solutions to that so they could see it, they could keep reading.
When Rachel-Ruth and I and my other daughter, Marrow, and my grandchildren would go up when daddy was there, when mother left, then we had daddy all to ourselves for about 10 years or more. It was so much fun because he gave us his full attention, as Rachel just said. She's used that as an example, by the way, in the book of God, giving us, God the father who gives us full attention. My father transferred that image of God the father to my grandchildren and to my children, that when we're in his presence, as many people pulling on him, he still gives us his full attention, and Daddy did that.
He was fun. He was sweet. He loved to talk with the girls. They were never intimidated by his old age or his feebleness. I think some of the grandchildren were. They didn't know how to act around him, but my granddaughters, they loved him so much that they would stand by the hour by his bed, talk to him, ask him questions, interact. We would sing to him. We would play music for him. We'd read Scripture to him.
It was a very precious time, as well as being hard because we had him to go home to, we had him so much to ourselves for so many years, and then got that call one morning that he had gone to Heaven. He was waiting for breakfast and he just, at 99, he just walked into Heaven. It was sort of stunning in his suddenness, even though at 99, you would think we were expecting it, but precious memories. He finished strong in his spirit.
My mother finished strong. I spent the night with her, her last night on earth. She still had that sparkle in her eyes, as Rachel-Ruth has described, still had that joy, still could lift up her hand to welcome me, really precious. I want to finish strong like they did.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Those moments, those visualizations, they go deep into our heart.
Anne Graham Lotz: That's right.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Her soul. My mother, Anne, lost her eyesight. She struggled late in life. What I remember about her was she loved to listen to tapes a lot. She wanted Scripture read to her. Then she would sit down at the piano and play without eyesight the old hymns that I would listen to. Sunday morning, she would get out and play the piano before church because she played in church. I can hear all those old hymns and see, that's the stuff that goes deep in our hearts.
Rachel-Ruth, I'm going to come back to you because there's a connection here. The connection is your dad died way too young. You tell the story about your mom taking care of your dad. You also tell the story of watching your mom battle cancer and more. You know that. Take us into what it's done in your heart, what you've seen, what you've witnessed.
Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright: My dad was great. He always said, he wasn't a bump on a log. He was so full of life and so much fun and always active. We always played sports together growing up and just so much fun. Then to see the diabetes that he had kind of wreak havoc on his health and bring him to a point where he was on dialysis for six years, the last six years of his life and then just all the things that came from that, just really hard.
The last three years in particular, my mom had to take care of him 24-7, so counting out all of his pills and doing all this stuff. At one point, I had to give him his insulin one day and I was like, "Oh." He's like, "Just do it. It'll be fine." I took the needle and tried to put it in his stomach and I poked him six times. He was like, "What are you doing?" But it was so funny.
But he had a great sense of humor about everything and never complained. In fact, his guys, he taught all these men. He was such a man's man. He taught all these men in these Bible studies in the area and they called him God's gladiator. I mean, he really was like one of David's mighty men. I mean, what I would've pictured them being like, and just this tough New Yorker, but just so fun. To see him kind of deteriorate was difficult. It was hard.
When the Lord decided to take him, he was in the pool. He was sitting by the pool. That's how my mom found him. It was probably a sweet way to go because if he had been walking, he could've fallen if he had passed out onto the concrete, but he didn't. It was soft in the pool. The Lord just kind of gently took him to Heaven because he probably passed out.
As tragic as it was and how I was desperate in the hospital, I'm like, "Dad, don't leave." I mean, I was just begging him to stay, even though he was gone. I think he was gone. I'm thankful that he's there because he would not have tolerated everything that's happening right now, not having to wear a face mask.
But my dad just, he was great, but it was also difficult for my mom taking care of him. It wasn't easy and anybody who knows diabetes, it can kind of mess with your, it can make you angry when your sugar gets too high or whatever. Mom had to deal with all that and she did it beautifully, beautifully. Here's this woman who speaks on stages and goes to the White House and does all this stuff, and now she's in the home with this new calling in her life to take care of dad and it wasn't easy and mom did it.
Anne Graham Lotz: I just want to interject and just say I didn't have to do that. That was my joy. I loved taking care of my husband. I loved staying home with him. Yes, there were hard times and yes, he wasn't always pleasant, but I loved Danny Lotz. It was a pleasure to me. I think this is one thing I think God allows us to go through dark times, hard times, fiery trials, as Peter describes.
The reason is so that our children and our friends and our family can see the reality of our faith because in those dark times and those hard times when life is crashing in around us or it throws us a curve ball, that's when our faith becomes so evident to people around us. Peter says it's in those fiery trials that Jesus has revealed. I feel like the Lord allowed me to go through that with my husband and then later with my own cancer journey to show people the reality of Jesus in my life.
Dr. Tim Clinton: We are out of time. Anne, I want to give you a first shot at a close for us. I want you to speak to those who are out there, maybe with some tears in their eyes and they're saying, "God, my family right now, I want you to do a miracle. I want something to happen so that they see Jesus in me and that they'll hold on to that faith because that's the only thing we have."
Anne Graham Lotz: If I can just encourage people who are listening, make sure that you have grasped the baton yourself. Make sure that you've come to the cross, confessed your sin, told God you're sorry, claim Jesus as God's sacrifice for your sin, ask him to forgive you, believe that he rose up from a dead to give you eternal life, receive the eternal life he offers, open up your heart, invite him to come in, surrender your life and follow him. Be a Jesus follower all the way from this day forward, all the way home to Heaven every day of your life.
If you've done that, if you have a firm grip on the baton, then please know God loves you. Yes, He does. God loves you. That's why He gave His own son for you. If nobody else needed a savior, needed a Lord, He would've sent Jesus to you. God loves you. He loves your family. All I can say is get on your knees, tell Him your heartbreak, tell Him your concern and just live out your authentic faith in front of whoever's watching your children, your friends, your neighbors, your coworkers, your fellow students, whoever it might be. Just be authentic as you live for Jesus.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Rachel-Ruth, your final comments. I mean, it's never too late.
Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright: That's right. The thought that came to my mind when you said this was that if you're going through a trial right now, it doesn't mean that the Lord doesn't love you, and whether you've got rebellious kids or a difficult marriage or a death in the family and you just think just one bad thing after another happens, that Jesus loves you. He's teaching you something through this process. Just say, "Lord, what is it you're trying to teach me," and cling to the Lord in the difficulties.
Because everybody's going through difficulties right now. Just cling to the Lord. Fall in love with the Lord and love your kids, love them no matter what stage they're in, what hard thing, what difficult thing or if they're doing great, just love your kids and be a light to all those around you because time is short and so now is a time to put our focus on the Lord and just to spread the love of Jesus to everyone.
Dr. Tim Clinton: What a delightful couple of days together. The book, Jesus Followers. You need to write this down. You need to go up online right now, get to your bookstore, get a copy of Jesus Followers: Real Life Lessons for Igniting Faith in the Next Generation. The author is Anne Graham Lotz and her daughter, Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright. Such a joy to have both of you. Again, on behalf of Dr. Dobson, his wife, Shirley, their family, the entire team at Family Talk, we salute you and pray God's continued blessing over both of you. Thank you for joining us.
Anne Graham Lotz: Thank you so much. God bless you Tim.
Roger Marsh: Well, that was the conclusion of a touching vulnerable conversation between Family Talks co-host Dr. Tim Clinton and Anne Graham Lotz and Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright. Now I hope that you've been encouraged by today's and yesterday's two part broadcast. If you missed any part of those programs, be sure to go online to drjamesdobson.org/broadcast and you can listen to them there. While you're on our website, remember you can also request a CD copy of the two day program. We've titled it "Jesus Followers." Just visit drjamesdobson.org/broadcast. Well that's all the time we have for today. I'm Roger Marsh and I hope you'll join us again next time for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.