Roger Marsh: You're listening to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh, and we have a very important and intriguing interview to share with you today. Dr. Tim Clinton will be talking with the bestselling author of The Harbinger, The Harbinger II, and The Oracle. His name is Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. Now we've had Rabbi Cahn on Family Talk several times in the past, but today he's here to talk about his upcoming film called The Harbingers of Things to Come. You're about to hear Rabbi Cahn review some of the old mysteries of The Harbinger and reveal some new revelations as well. Let's join Dr. Tim Clinton and Rabbi Jonathan Cahn right now on today's edition of Family Talk.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Our guest is JDFI close friend, a dear friend of Dr. Dobson, Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. He's an author, speaker, spiritual leader, recognized across the country and around the globe as a New York times bestselling author, live event organizer, now documentary film producer. Jonathan, it's always great to have you. Thank you for joining us.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Always great to be with you, Tim, always.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Dr. Dobson and his wife, Shirley send their sincere warm wishes. And I know Dr. Dobson is anxious to hear what you've been up to and what we're going to talk about on today and tomorrow's broadcast.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. Yeah. It's always a joy. One of the honors of my life is being able to meet Dr. Dobson. Growing up in the Lord, always hearing him and all that. It's such an honor and a blessing to have anything with Dr. Dobson.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Well, he sure has a lot of vinegar in him still I can tell you that, Johnathan.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes, he does.
Dr. Tim Clinton: He's got some fire and I know he has a deep affection for you. You have a new movie coming out, going to be in theaters all across America, I think on May 12th, called The Harbingers of Things to Come. Jonathan, tell us about it.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah, this is the first time we've ever done anything like this, Tim, and it was just the Lord opened the door. This is going to be like a prophetic explosion on the movie screen. Where people are used to seeing Hollywood do what it does, it's going to be a really a prophetic revelation. I've seen what they did actually, and it's very strong. It's very much for now. It starts with the harbingers, but then it goes beyond meaning what's happened after I wrote The Harbinger. That was a number of years ago. Things have not stopped. It's going to be showing what has happened, what has been, where we are, and where things are going. And also at the end, if anybody knows my books and you know, there's always hope and what do we need to know for the future? What do we need to do and stand for this hour?
So, it's also going to show things that people are not just reading about the Harbingers, they're going to see these things unfold. They found archival footage of these things. And there's also something that I have never, I don't want to say revealed, I've never shown it. It's this images caught on film and caught on video that are, I will just say incredibly prophetic during this time. So, the thing is that I believe it's for this hour and I am praying that God use it as a wakeup call, not only for believers, but also for non-believers. I'm praying and hoping, we're praying here that people bring their unsafe friends, because it's hard to argue with it and this is where we are.
So, it's going to be everywhere, as you said, May 12th, one night event. And for people, if you want to find out where it is or near you just remember the title, it's theharginersofthingstocome.com and it'll tell you where it is and how to get there. And after that, right after May 12th for a month, what they're going to do is they're going to have churches are going to be able to show it in churches and have their own showing and bring out people and bring out unsaved people. So that'll be after that. And I just found out, it was literally as I'm waiting to get on with you today, they told me that it's been such a big reaction that they may be showing it again the following week. But that they just told me just before I came on.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Well, congratulations to you. And I can't believe what God's doing in and through your great ministry. Jonathan, truth is I think you just step back and we look at the last two years in particular, last couple of years have been rough. It's been a season where COVID hit. When you think about the lockdowns, the loss, the loneliness. I think about the racial trauma we witnessed and the tension, then the rioting that happened, the election mess. Jonathan, the partial birth abortion battles we're seeing, the struggle with parental rights, the censorship, suppression, so much more you. It was only intuitive, by the way, that we would see a spike in mental health issues. People are wrestling with fear and stress and anxiety and depression and suicidality. They're confused. They're angry. They're frustrated. Jonathan they're emotionally shot. Can you believe where we're at as a nation?
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. I just heard today, if things are moving forward in California to this bill where it allows for the killing of children after birth up to 28 days, this is just moving ahead. Do we ever think we'd see that discussion? I was just reading, you mentioned this. I was just reading yesterday, suicide is at skyrocketing. Drug overdose is the highest ever in our history. I'm shocked by the next thing that America does, but at the same time, this is also the template of the warning, the biblical warning of a nation that has gone off the biblical warning of the harbinger, that if it doesn't turn back without revival, it gets worse.
We are accelerating, several things happening at once. One hand, it's the moral fall and departure. When you don't have God, there's no hope. When you don't have God, there's no life. So all these things go this way. And on the other hand, then there's the external events like COVID and war and the breakdown of our society that are the result that happen. Unfortunately I wish I didn't have to say it, everything's going forward in this template.
Dr. Tim Clinton: It seems like it's almost like cascading off the cliff. Yeah. And, and that there can't be any morality really? Because if you bring morality into it, you have to be a judge. You have to say no. And so as we watch this unfolding, Jonathan, this cascading away from God, if you will, as a country, it's just stunning. And the only thing that you probably can't be in this culture is a believer.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. Yeah. None of us have ever experienced this. We say, how can anyone with any rationality say what they're saying? Or how can they do this to children? How can they call evil good and good evil, so clearly? But this happened in one sense in the last days of Israel, which is the template. We're also in this stage where we're seeing things that have never been. What's happening to the children, being indoctrinated into things that just a little while back would be unthinkable, but this is it. And the other side, Tim, is that it's exciting in one sense that this is why we're here. We have a purpose. There's darkness and the light, the candle, has a greater purpose in the darkness.
So, this is our chance to shine when it really means something, it may be harder to do it, but it touches so much more. People say, "I wish I could live in biblical times." We're there. This is the same times that Elijah was, that Isaiah, that Jeremiah, that Paul, it was not a Christian culture. It was an anti-Christian culture. But we have the honor of standing for the Lord for such a time as this.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Well, as we are increasingly concerned about the moral decay in our country, our fall from God, in the midst of it, I believe this. I believe God does not leave himself without a remnant, those who would speak into culture for such a time as this. Jonathan, God's given you a unique voice in this hour. Let's go back to first of all, a little bit more about you. You are a messianic Jew. What is your role as a rabbi at Beth Israel Worship Center?
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: People call me pastor, people call me rabbi, people call me everything. I'm the spiritual leader of Beth Israel. It's a worship center made up of Jew and Gentile. Really if you go there, it's a United Nations of people. The actual building looks like Jerusalem, but it's all people, because every believer, the roots are Jewish. It doesn't matter whether you're a Baptist or Pentecostal. Your roots are Jewish. You're grafted in. We're all together.
So, I believe it's God bringing these things back together like it was in the beginning in many ways. So we have Friday nights and we have Sunday morning. So I have two different messages every weekend, one to end the week and one to open it. And it's about 20 minutes outside of New York City. So actually, speaking about how this goes together, when 9/11 happened, I could see it happen at that time. My wife, she wasn't my wife then, we were seeing each other. She was supposed to be at the building at 9:00 there. At the last minute, her plans were changed. That happened with several people in our congregation. But anyway, if you are ever in the area in the Northeast, be my guest. It's Beth Israel, and the building's called the Jerusalem Center.
Dr. Tim Clinton: In that Jonathan, you preach the gospel. In the midst of it, you are strong on understanding the role of America in modern day culture. You say clearly in your writings that America is not Israel, but there is a correlation here. And that becomes the heart of what your focus is.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. Tim, thank you for being very clear with that. Because some people go off to the right or the left of that. Israel is Israel. That's the covenant nation. Our God made a covenant with Israel. It's unique. We're not Israel, but America, the founders of America, the Puritans actually they made a covenant with God. We can't say what He did, but they did. And they modeled America after ancient Israel. And in fact they gave warnings, that if we follow God, this will happen, if we don't ... And it's actually come true. So I believe one of the things that makes America special and unique is that foundation that it was unlike most nations. It wasn't founded because of a tribe or geography. It was founded from a faith and the faith in God dedicated to God, and after the pattern of ancient Israel.
So, what you're seeing with the things with The Harbinger and everything that flows from it is that the same patterns are unfolding with us. And God could use biblical signs with any nation, but it's especially relevant to America because we are following the same path, in the good, as much as we follow God. But unfortunately also in the bad, because Israel fell and we are replaying the steps of Israel
Dr. Tim Clinton: Harbinger means something like a foretelling, right? A warning of things to come. And you go back to ancient Israel and you talk about the warnings that came to them as a nation and how they did not heed that. And judgment came on the house of the Lord. Yeah. Relate that to what you began seeing in America. The original book, The Harbinger that came out.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. It began when I first saw 9/11 and I had had a real sense of things. But a little while later, I'm standing at the corner of ground zero and I see an object, a tree, and something says, you have to search this out. And I went home, I opened the Bible, started searching and all of a sudden it became, I said, whoa, it became this puzzle piece. It was this fallen Sycamore from 9/11. It was this puzzle piece that became the first part of a puzzle kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. I could not reproduce how that happened when I needed the next key or clue, someone would say something and it would actually be the thing, or something would come on my computer that I didn't type in and it was the next thing that I needed.
It's basically, in a nutshell, for those who don't know, that in the last days of ancient Israel, as it was falling away from God, there were warnings given. God always warns. And there were nine harbingers or nine signs that appear in the land. And they're based on a particular Scripture, Isaiah 9:10. And from that they appeared and Israel actually ignored them and later on was destroyed. Well, those same exact harbingers have appeared in America on American soil. Not generally, specifically. Some in New York City around where we are, some in Washington, DC, some involving leaders, even presidents, some involving ceremonies, but they're exact, they're stunningly exact, and nobody could have put this together.
And so, this is what began. Literally I'm standing at Ground Zero and this is the thing that began. I didn't know where it was going to go, but this is the thing. And it always begins. If you look at the pattern of the Bible, that when God is warning a nation, years before judgment He allows a shaking and the shaking always comes in the form of a strike on the land and it's temporary. Well, it happened with ancient Israel, happened with ancient Judah, happened at the time after Messiah, Jesus said with the Romans and it has happened with America with 9/11. And 9/11 is the beginning. From that one event come all the nine harbingers and the harbingers have not stopped. But that is the beginning of the mystery, not the end. It's the beginning, warning America.
Dr. Tim Clinton: New York City, rabbi, was right in the middle of all this and the start, if you will, being the gateway to the country.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yes. Look it's mind blowing because you look at the signs of judgment in the Bible and they're all laid out. One thing is that if you look at it from Deuteronomy onward, it says judgment begins at the gate. You know, the enemy would appear at the gate. That's when you know judgment. He said, and God says it specifically, "I'll allow the enemy to strike the gate." Well, the gate of America is New York City. That's where it happened. It's the gate of the gate because it happened right in that section. The World Trade Center is standing right on the gateway in between the land and the statue of Liberty and Ellis island. So it happens at the gate and actually, in the ancient gate, Tim, they had on each side of the gate, there would be two pillars. There were two towers and they would generally be identical or twin towers. So it's like everything the Bible says with that, it has happened.
Dr. Tim Clinton: It was shocking to me as I began to walk my way through the pages of what was happening and unfolding as you were writing and to see the correlation, Jonathan, it was shocking to me. As you progressed your way through, the Pentagon even ties into this piece, doesn't it?
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. These are things that I could not even put into Harbinger, the original Harbinger. And also, there's other things that I didn't even know when I wrote The Harbinger. And that is this. If you look at the biblical pattern when judgment or warning comes to a nation, that the nation's powers are shaken, are struck, and God says, I will strike it down to the foundation. Well, what is the powers of America, the superpower of America as the military superpower, it began actually in 1941 when America went out of isolation and entered the second World War, it would come out of it as the world's superpower, military superpower. And that same year, 1941, the military quadruples. It's the year it all begins. That year they build a building and the building's going to actually represent America's military power.
That of course is the Pentagon. Well in 9/11, number one, the Pentagon is struck. The site of the nation's power is struck, but there's more to it. When was the Pentagon begun? It was begun on a summer morning when they gathered on the Potomac river. The Pentagon was born on 9/11, on September 11th. That is the beginning. It was struck on the day of its foundation, as the biblical pattern. And the warning is that our blessings, our power, all of it comes from God. And if we war against God, that power is not going to remain, it will crumble. And I'll throw this in, Tim.
You mentioned what was the other power of America? It's economic power. The center of that has always been New York City. So the question is when did that begin? When was New York City founded in the beginning of America's rush? Well, it was founded when Henry Hudson discovered it, which was on September 11th. New York City was born on 9/11, long before we knew about 9/11, we thought about 9/11. It was already the day of the foundation of America's power. And each thing returns to the same place on the exact day.
Dr. Tim Clinton: In your original work. Jonathan, you identified again, nine harbingers. Yeah. Jonathan, let me ask you real quick. In all of those, what's the one piece that really stuck out to you, that grabbed you the most?
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Interesting. On one hand, it's the totality because it's not just one thing, it's like there's an intelligence behind it, and nobody could have planned it and everything goes, every single thing. But I think a lot of people are struck by the sycamore, number one, because there's just something about that. But the other one is that when Israel was struck, the leaders of Israel, they make the vow, the vow is in Isaiah 9:10 saying hey, even though the bricks have fallen in this attack, we're going to build quarry stone. We're going to come back stronger. Even though the sycamore's been struck down, we're going to plant cedars. And so they make the vow that's going to lead to judgment. It's right there in Isaiah 9:10. God says it's defiance. Well, the day after 9/11 on Capitol Hill, America gathers to make its response, the government.
The government's led by the Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle. He gets up on September 12th, speaks to America and the world, and at the end of his speech, having no idea what he's doing, he says there is a Scripture, a word that speaks to us now. It's from Isaiah. And then out of his mouth, he declares the ancient vow of judgment, the harbinger Scriptures, the bricks have fallen. The very vow that the leaders of Israel did right after their attack and that sealed judgment. And when he says this to him, he actually he talks about the tree that's struck down. He doesn't know there's an actual tree that they just discovered it that day, that was struck down.
He speaks about the stone. You mentioned the Gazit stone. Well, it's going to be two years later that stone's going to appear in New York City. He speaks about replacing the one tree, that's going to happen two years later. So it's literally prophetic without having any idea what he's doing, he thinks it's an encouraging word. It's actually pronouncing judgment. And the scary thing is after 9/11, we responded just like Israel did. We did not return to God. We've gotten worse. We have continued the course of ancient Israel to where we are now. So it was all spoken the very day after it happened.
Dr. Tim Clinton: So in that first book, you had that chapter on things to come. That's exactly what you're talking about. What happens when a nation does not return to God?
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: If you look at the original book and the chapter called "Things to Come," it says, what happens is the shakings are going to continue. And it goes to the different things that happens in the nation. One of them I wrote there, this is 10 years ago, is the nation's going to be divided. It's going to be a divided nation, which we are now as never before since the Civil War. It will be a disorder, unrest and civil disorder. You mentioned that we've seen our cities on fire. We're seeing a disorder taking over the culture. It's going to be the breakdown of infrastructure, economic deterioration. It says, this is in that chapter, there will be natural calamities and manmade calamities. However one views COVID, as natural or manmade, we got it. We're moving in every single thing. And right now, you and I are talking, you open up by saying, we cannot deny it. We have had shakings as we never have known upon our land.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Jonathan, you released Harbinger II in 2020. Dr. Dobson and you had talked just about that time of the release and in it, how did you know that potentially 19 years later, that 2020 could be a wild year and here the pandemic gets in more. Set that up for us. We're battling a little bit of time, but I want to set us up, especially as we go into tomorrow's broadcast.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. Well, first of all, Tim, when it was 2019, I'm praying. I always pray like, "Lord, what's the next book?" And I had a very strong sense that the next year was going to be year of great shaking. And I started writing Harbinger II at the beginning of 2020. And it was two and a half months later, the shakings began. But the thing is that in The Harbinger, the question is asked and it's answered in The Harbinger II and the movie that it's asked, how long is it between that first strike on the land, the warning, and the great, great shakings coming upon the land, the beginning? And the answer is it came in Jerusalem in 605 BC, first strike Babylon, and then the greater shakings came in 586 BC. So the thing is, for how many years? It's 19 years.
And the Bible makes a big thing about in the 19th year, Nebuchadnezzar 19th year. Well, it's 19 years. So when was 9/11? 9/11 was 2001. So when is the 19th year? The 19th year is 2020, the year that the shakings came upon the land. And so, for years, Tim, I was literally looking at 2020 and not, can't put God in a box, but was saying, "Lord, is it going to go like this?" And it did. And the thing is that one of the shakings that Jeremiah says will happen in the 19th year for Israel is a plague will come on the land in the 19th year. And so a plague came on and what is the name of the plague? It's COVID and then the number 19.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Stunning. Jonathan, in the midst of all of it, I know that your heart was that the people would repent, that they would turn from their ways, and that there would be a return to the Lord. As a matter of fact, in 2020, you hosted an event in Washington, DC. Jonathan, take us to your heart, and what were you asking God?
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: This is before everything happened with COVID. I and others felt strongly that we are at a precipice and the only hope America has is return. The only hope is return and revival. Without that America's gone. And that it was going to be a crucial election and we felt strongly. I felt I had to gather in Washington DC and according to the Scripture, "If my people who are called by my name." God is real and God's promise is real. And I've actually seen that change the history of America.
So, we gathered there and cried out in repentance, starting with God's people. It's got to start with us. The only hope is revival. It's still the only hope. And no matter what the government does, no matter what's happening in the culture, no matter what the entertainment industries doing, it doesn't matter. The only hope we have is revival, the gospel, and that's what we have to go full blast at. And the Lord hears our prayers. He'll do it His way.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Jonathan. I don't think I've ever seen among the people, a stirring, a heartache like I'm seeing right now. People are crying out to God, which something happened. As a matter of fact, recently, the American Psychological Association came out with a poll that said stress in America is at an all-time high right now. Jonathan, just your closing thoughts about where we're at and give us a word of encouragement.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Yeah. Yeah. If you know me, every book ends with hope and when what are we, that's the whole point and the movie does as well. These are times of great shakings. If I didn't have the Lord, I would be concerned. C.S. Lewis said, "He whispers in our pleasures. He shouts in our pain." Most of us came to the Lord because things were not great. And that's true with people, that's true with the nation. So, we have to take it God's shakes and allows it because His mercy is calling us.
One of the things about what I'm saying in The Harbinger, it's that it's also that God's in control. You know, it's not out of control, it's in control, but you got to be with God. If you're with God you don't have to fear because you know who holds the future. If you're not in God, you got to get in God. People say, how can I be safe? How can I be safe? In Hebrew the word for safety is Yeshua and Yeshua is Jesus's real name. You want to be safe. That's the point. So let it lead you higher. Let it lead it all higher into the arms of God.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Rabbi Jonathan Cahn is our guest today. Jonathan, you shaking the nation with these words. This work, it's just amazing. And so delighted, this new movie coming out, The Harbingers to Come. Jonathan, just a little more tease on that and when it's coming out on May 12th.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: The movie is The Harbingers of Things to Come. It's May 12th, one night event, but to get in, it's going to be all over. And I just pray, not only for believers, we need to be woken up. We need to know, but and also bring out people who don't know the Lord. It's going to be talking about all these things and the future and what you need to know and what we need to know together. So just go to theharbingersofthingstocome.com, and it'll tell you where it's playing and how to get there. And the other thing is that for one month after that, churches can have their own showing and bring out unsaved people, do that and pray that God will use this powerfully to touch this nation.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Well, we're going to talk tomorrow about all that and a little bit more, what all these things reveal about what is still to come, the key, the hope, and what you need to know about the future. Jonathan, it's such a delight to have you. Thank you for joining us.
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn: Thank you. Thank you, Tim. My delight.
Roger Marsh: And of course, if you missed any of today's fascinating conversation, featuring Rabbi Jonathan Cahn and Dr. Tim Clinton, just visit drjamesdobson.org and click on the broadcast tab. That's drjamesdobson.org and select the tab marked broadcast, or call us at (877) 732-6825.
Well, we're out of time for today's edition of Family Talk. Make sure you join us again tomorrow as Dr. Tim Clinton and Rabbi Jonathan Cahn will continue their exploration of The Harbingers of Things to Come. That's coming up right here on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.
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