Roger Marsh: Thank you for joining us for another edition of Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh. How's your new year going so far? I know many kids are starting to head back to school. Maybe you have recently returned home from a Christmas vacation after visiting family or friends and are settling back into your work routine. Well, wherever you are, we are thankful that you have made us a part of your day. We have a special program for you today. Our guest presenter is Dan Seaborn. Dan is the founder and president of Winning at Home. Winning at Home is a network of Christian counselors and coaches helping people manage life in and outside the home, pouring into their kids, strengthening their marriages, and healing emotional wounds at all stages of life. Dan is also an author of over 12 books about marriage and family. Today, we're going to hear Dan Seaborn give a presentation at Family Church in Zealand, Michigan.
It happened in early January of 2022. He'll be talking about the wonderful promise and scriptural foretelling of Jesus coming. Dan explains that wherever you are placed in life, whatever your circumstances might be, it is by God's design and it is for a reason. It is his plan for you. We are where we are for a reason and we must trust God in our lives, even when, as Dr. Dobson says, and I quote, "When God Doesn't Make Sense." Well, with that, let's join Dan Seaborn speaking before a Christian group assembled at their local church. We believe, and I'm sure you will agree, this has universal appeal and application just for you on Family Talk.
Dan Seaborn: Christmas hit me this year as I was going over these little figurines that you have in your house that's part of the nativity set. So, I was looking at them. One of my grandsons, he's two and a half, and he was at the house. And Jane has lots of these sets sitting around the house just for fun, and we were going through the different little characters that are a part of it. And I'm like, "Hey, that's Joseph and Mary. That was the mom and dad. This is Jesus. This is Jesus in the manger. These are the wise men." And then we got to this little figurine that's coming up here, a picture of it. It's just a shepherd hole in the sheep. And then I said to him, "This is the shepherd. They were afraid, but they came to worship Jesus." And when I said it's a shepherd holding a sheep, he's like, "That's not what that is, Papa." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's a shepherd holding a sheep." He goes, "No, it's not." And I was like, "Well, what do you think it is?"
And he said, "Papa, that's grandma riding the skateboard." I love it. It's what it looks like. It's really what it looks like. It's perfect. So, we got grandma on a skateboard at Christmas. That was quite a sight, but we had a good time. And the more I thought about it, the more I thought, wow, that is what the world sees when they look at this little nativity set that we as Christians sometimes put around our houses. They don't believe that that really is the savior of the world. They look at that little baby in the manger and go... They don't say out loud, sometimes they do, but they have this thought, that's Christian fantasy. They get together and do that stuff. But I want to tell you today what the word of God says. I'm not going to give you my opinion. I'm going to tell you what the word says. And we're going to go back to when Isaiah foretold it. That was 700 years before Jesus was born. To put that in perspective, America's about 250 years old. So think of how many generations passed when Isaiah foretold the birth of Christ.
There were generation after generations that must have been going, "He must have not told us the truth because it is not happening." Because sometimes we look at our day and the way the world is right now... I know some parents in this room would have this thought, man, I hope my kids are going to be okay growing up and around some of this society. You have those thoughts. Grandparents in here for sure have that thought. And I want to take you back to the day when Isaiah said this, so much more challenging than the day we live in. They had kings. King of Judah was the name Ahaz. It was the area where Isaiah lived. He lived in Judah. And Ahaz was a wicked, wicked king. He came into power at the age of 20. So imagine that, you don't get to vote or anything. Whatever a Ahaz said is what goes down.
And he was ruthless. There's kids in the room, so I want to be careful. I won't tell you how he did it, but he took the life of his own children. He was ruthless at the age of 20. He reined for four years. During his rein, Isaiah goes to him and for tales that there's going to be a little baby born. Now the people of that day, they were fearful. They lived in constant fear. What if he turns on me? What if I say something wrong? What if I do something against the king? He'll have me killed, have my children killed. So, they lived under this constant anxiety. So when Isaiah came and said what he said, you got to understand this was an incredibly peaceful thought for the people. Now, they probably were thinking it was going to happen tomorrow. It didn't happen for 700 years.
So as I tell what this verse says, I want you to pin in perspective what you would've been feeling if you were in that day. And I want you to think about what Ahaz would've thought, the king, because Isaiah comes to him and says, "Unto us, a child is born. Unto us, a son is given." And look at this. Think about what this would've sounded like to that king. And the government will be on his shoulders. In other words, you will be in charge of him. He'll be in charge of you. Ahaz is like, "No way, I am the king."
And he called him four names. He said he's going to be wonderful counselor. I'm sure that ticked Ahaz off because, "I'm the counselor. I tell everybody what to do." He's going to be mighty God. "I'm mighty God." He's going to be everlasting father. Ahaz couldn't really argue that. He didn't even live out his own tenure as a father. And then prince of peace, the only peace in that kingdom was the piece he had in himself that he could do whatever he wanted. So that's the context, but I'm going to break down those four phrases and tell you what they mean for us today. The first part is simply that idea of a wonderful counselor. I work with counselors and coaches. We got 35, 40 of them over at [inaudible 00:06:35] now. Let me tell you what they do. They help people. Counselors help people who are stuck.
"I'm depressed, I'm discouraged. I don't know where to go. I don't have the answer. I don't know how to get out of this situation that I'm in." That's what counselors do. A wonderful counselor sometimes tells you what you don't want to hear. Jesus said, "I'm a wonderful counselor." Today in this room, there is somebody right now. Right now, he's giving you guidance on an area of your life that you know need to surrender to him or handle a different way. It's on you how you respond to that. Can I just say something to you? Don't blame him if you don't obey what the spirit is saying to you, and then it goes awry. Please stop blaming Jesus for all that. Wonderful is put in there for a reason. It doesn't just call him counselor, wonderful counselor. And I ask you to look at your life today and to say to yourself, where am I stuck? Somebody here is stuck today. Somebody watching online, you're stuck.
And I would tell you that you're not necessarily going to get guidance that helps you by seven o'clock tonight, it's all good. No. It might be that God wants you in that spot to teach you something about his omnipotence and power and goodness and grace. I've had some stuck days. I've had some hard days. Josh and Amy, two of my children here from New Jersey, hardly ever a blessing. We get to have them in church with us today. They don't get to visit very often. But last night they were at our house, and another one of our kids was at the house. A daughter who five years ago, I didn't even know where she was. And I woke up last night thanks to some neighbors. They were in good spirits. And last night about 12:30, I woke up to laughter, to hearing voices, and one of those voices was that girl. And I was laying in bed just going, wow God, you're a wonderful counselor.
I tried for years, Lord. I had all the perfect answers. She didn't seem to want to hear that. But when I released her and you spoken to her heart, she's home. She's good with God. One of the council God might give to some of you even during this service is get your hands off that thing you're trying to fix all the time. You might be actually causing it to be worse. A wonderful counselor will guide you even to things that you don't necessarily agree with. Be open to that. If you're stuck today, ask yourself, really Ask yourself, why am I stuck? Well, I'm stuck because what everybody else is doing to me. No one else can decide where you're at. That's between you and the Lord. Find him and his guidance right there. I don't know what that means.
So, I gave this little thought the other day at a corporation. Okay? I spoke at a corporation for Christmas and hundreds of employees. And when I got done, the CEO, the president of the company... I was done, and I walked over to the side, and he walked over to me, the CEO and said, "You know there's a lot of people here who don't like your speech, right?" And I said, "Oh yeah. Oh yeah, of course." He said, "They're stuck, and they don't even like what you said about Jesus gives them hope." I said, "I know that's the world." If I went somewhere and say, "Jesus is your chance to not be stuck," who is this fool? Yeah, yeah. I realize that. I want to propose back to one who might be thinking that in this crowd today or online today, I just want to say to you, why is it that you're holding something against Jesus?
Because he isn't... Now, some pastor may have screwed you over, some church people. All that stuff may have happened. Jesus has never screwed you over. Will you give him a chance? Go read Matthew, Mark and Luke, and John. They're the first four books in the New Testament of the Bible. Okay? Really easy read. Go find it maybe in the New Living Translation, a way to... You can go on your phone and just put in something like that. You can bring it up. Read those books. Read about Jesus. You won't dislike him. You might dislike some of the people who say they're followers of him, but you won't dislike him when you read the story. In fact, in all four of those books, there's going to be a story in there that's kind of like the thing you're going through, and you'll be like, I like how he handled that. And I want to propose to you today that you give him a chance to be your wonderful counselor, because in that process, he'll prove number two, that he's mighty God.
Roger Marsh: This is Roger Marsh jumping in here briefly to remind you that you're listening to Family Talk, and our guest presenter today is our ministry friend Dan Seaborn. Dan spoke to a nice gathering at family church in Michigan in early 2022. He has much to offer about the promise of Jesus Christ to provide you joy and comfort as we begin the new year. Let's return there right now.
Dan Seaborn: I wrote this message on a flight from Nashville, Tennessee, about nine o'clock. I get on the plane, clear day, clear flight all the way to Michigan, 30,000 feet. I had a window seat. I got my Bible, I got everything spread out. And I'm sitting there and looking out the window, and I get to this point of mighty God. And I'm looking at whatever houses I can see out the window going, okay he's God over that group, he's God here too. Wow, he's mighty. Sometimes we go, tell what I'd do if I was God. I say sometimes say to all of us who have that thought, you can't even manage your own house. What the heck you doing trying to be God? And he's got all that. And then I felt the Lord lay on my heart. A very odd thought, was a really odd thought. Talk to the audience about what mighty God would mean to a 10 year old.
So for a second here, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, I want to talk to you. All the adults, you can listen if you don't do, but I'm talking to the eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 year old. But you guys who are that age, just think about what is it that at night as you're trying to sleep or something happens or you hear, what makes you anxious? If you're here... Don't say it out loud, but if you're here and your 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, what is it that you sometimes feel your heart races? What makes you anxious? What makes you fearful? What causes that? Watch this, mighty God never has that, never fearful, never anxious. It's why I want to tie you to him, because in those moments you need that peace only he can give. Listen, 10 year old, he can give you a peace. So when you're feeling this, he can say, "I got you."
And then at the age of 10, that age, there's where you start to become self-aware too. You start noticing things about your body, your eyes, your nose, your ears, your hair, the way you dress When you're five or six, you walk out, "I'm here." You don't care if there's stuff all over your face. We had grandkids walking around yesterday. There's stuff all in their hair. They don't care. But at 10, you know look in the mirror and go, "Oh man, I need to clean that up." You become self-aware at 10, and you start noticing... And here's what, you start slithering back going, "I don't want people to look at me. What if they say something about... What if they post something about..." It's happening, calling our office like crazy. Kids don't know what to do with it. It makes you go, "I don't want anybody to see me." God, mighty God never has that. He never is going, "What'd they say about me? [inaudible 00:15:04]."
Nothing shrinks him back. He's had everything in the world said about him, and he goes, "I'm good. I'm mighty God." That's why I want you to tie to him, see. You 10 year old, I want you to tie to God, because when you're feeling that slithering thing, he's like, "I got you. I made you. I got a plan for you." When you're 10, you worry about getting trapped. When I was 10, my buddy Robert, always wanted to try to get me locked in the trunk of a car. He pushed me in. "Get me out of that thing." Fear of being trapped. When you're 10 you're like, man, what if I got trapped in there? You think about things like, what if I fell off that bridge? I mean, it just hits you, the reality of the world. You go to Chicago and you see a sky. What if that fell? I mean, it has hit you.
God never worries about being cornered or trapped. People have tried. Oh, I'll lock him in a [inaudible 00:16:00]. And God's like, "Really? Really? There ain't no lock going to hold me back. You can't corner me. I'm mighty God. There's nothing I can't do if I want to do it." You say, why do you feel like the Lord wants you to say that to 10 year olds? Because 40 year olds are nothing more than 10 year olds plus 30 years. We've had more of those things, and so we have more reason to go, "I don't know." Somebody this morning, "I don't know." And I would say to you, I don't think you've ever really experienced mighty God if you have doubt. Now I'm not telling you, you don't doubt things you go through in life. I've had plenty of that. I have it a lot, but I trust that mighty God is going to see this thing through the end, and it's going to be amazing when I get there because he says, "I am your next everlasting Father."
We got to break this down because both words are really confusing. Everlasting, nothing's everlasting. Hey, y'all need to see this right here. We don't even get whatever lasting is. Everything you have seen, touched, tasted, smell, looked at this morning is not everlasting. It's passing. The car you drove here. You haven't seen my new blah blah blah blah blah. Let me tell you something about it. It's a machine. It will break down. There'll be a day you'll look at it and go, "Piece of junk."
This building, they've painted it, colored it, put Christmas lights up, new screens, et cetera, but it's still doing what we call depreciating. You don't buy new buildings and appreciate them on your books. You depreciate every year, Dan, the person sitting next to me, they're everlasting. No, they aren't. Their soul is. You can't see their soul. But that body, as you're looking at [inaudible 00:18:02]... In fact if you sit by them a year ago, you're looking at them going, "Eh, yeah, you already depreciating." You just go down. It is part of the deal. We're all going downhill. Nothing lasts forever. Oh, when we go outside the heavens and the earth, actually Jesus words are until the heavens and earth pass away, so for us to get the concept of everlasting, it's kind of almost impossible for me to explain. God tries to help us with it.
In Psalm 103, he says this, listen, he says, "I know how you are formed. I remember you are dust." Talking about us. God's talking about us. You're dust. The life of mortal is like grass, comes up like a flower and it blows away and it's gone. Wow. A mist, a mist. It's gone. You're life, enjoy it because it's passing. Some people think they're a little more of a squirt, but they're still just part of it. You pass. And God says, "I know that you're this, so I want you to understand I'm everlasting. Please tie yourself to me because otherwise your life is pretty much futile." Father, everlasting Father, just me saying the word conjures up crazy feelings right here. Right now I'm thinking of two people in the room who I know. When I say the word father, what he does to him.
So, I got to try to explain this. My dad passed away two months ago. I held him. He was not a great dad. I love him, but he certainly wasn't... If you said to me, "God is like your dad," I'd be like, then I'm all good. I'm not sure I want heaven if God's like my dad. So when I say father, it is confusing. I used father and a prayer not long ago. I prayed a prayer and publicly, and I used the word father at a non-Christian event. I used the word father because they asked me to pray, and I said father. Had a lady beeline for me right after, one of those, "Are you dancing Seaborn?" This isn't going to be good. Especially when she said, "Can we go over here?" If people come up and say, "We go over here," just always go, "Oh my legs hurting."
Stay over here. Don't go over there. If you go over there, you're going to get chewed up. And I went over there. "How dare you used the word father. How do you know he's a father?" And I didn't respond. I was just like, "Sorry you feel that way." Because inside, you know I'm thinking you got something. Your dad, sorry about your dad. I get it. But I want to try to share something with you. I want you tell you what the word actually means in its perfect sense. Look at this. Provider, always protects you, never leaves or forsakes you, doesn't miss anything, believes in you no matter what, always will be there.
Tell me that isn't what we're looking for. It's literally what the world's looking for. And Jesus came, Isaiah said, to be that for us, everlasting father. Never ending provider, I'm in. Never ending lover of my soul, I'm in. So hard to get, but when you get it, you're like, it's a game changer, because then you can live through the crap that this world throws at you and make it. Some of you sometimes get to the brink, you see the edge of the cliff, and the everlasting father says, "I got you right here. I got you, and I'll care for you." In the quietness, I know this is speaking to someone's soul. And I pray you'll say to yourself, "I'm going to start believing in this person. I go worship Jesus," because ultimately he is our prince of peace.
And I ask you today to look at your life and say, where am I not peaceful? Hand that thing... Ready? Hand that thing to Jesus, and go, "I'm not peaceful right here, but I'm going to trust you because I don't believe you lie." You know the challenge of all this? I'm an honest, open kind of talker. I have to tell myself sometimes, "Jesus, I can't feel you or touch you. I mean, if you walk in the room right now, Jesus didn't stand by me, then I go all in." It's that faith element goes, I've experienced this internally. My external body deals with a lot of things that push me to the brink, but my internal self is going to continue to believe that since all this external tough that I face and the only thing that truly lasts is my soul, I'm going to trust that you got that Lord, and you've taught me something that human eyes can't see. So Father God, I come very boldly saying, thank you for being eternal king.
Our temporary mist can sure consume us. The wetness of it weighs over our life many times. And I pray today that we would know you as mighty God and trust you as king of all. I know these are preacher words. I get it Lord, but I pray something will happen in spirits and hearts today that makes an eternal difference, and I lay this stuff at your feet. In Jesus' name, amen.
Roger Marsh: Well, what a mighty God we have indeed. That was the conclusion of today's presentation by our ministry friend, Dan Seaborne. He spoke at the Family Church in Zealand, Michigan in early 2022. Dan is the founder and president of Winning at Home, which is a network of Christian counselors and coaches that help children and adults manage life, save marriages and families, and heal emotional wounds. Now, if you missed any part of today's program or would like to learn more about Family Talk, please visit our website at drjamesdobson.org. That's D-Rjamesdobsin.O-R-G. While you're there, you can listen to other programs that cover a variety of topics from marriage, parenting, mental health and public policy, and we always love to hear from you and we appreciate it when you share with us your questions, comments, or any of your prayer requests. Our customer care team is standing by. So give us a call at (877) 732-6825. Again, that's (877) 732-6825. We look forward to hearing from you. I'm Roger Marsh, wishing you God's richest blessings upon you and your family.
Speaker 4: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
Dr. James Dobson: This is James Dobson again. As we close today's program, I just want to thank so many of you out there who make this broadcast possible with your contributions, and I want to tell you how much your generosity is appreciated.