The Fight for the Minds of Our Children (Transcript)

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Dr. Dobson: We're gonna talk about something today that concerns me greatly. I think it's also important that if you have little children around you, you probably should get them involved someplace else because this is really adult fair. And it relates to the abhorrent sex education programs in the public schools, which are very quickly now teaching LGBT propaganda to children as young as five years of age. And some of them seven and some of them nine years. But they're all too young to be hearing about what's being taught. Parents have little or no influence on the curriculum that's being taught. And in fact, they often don't even know about it. They don't have a chance to opt out their children. They just have no authority in it. And I am very, very concerned about this.

Now, particularly I'm concerned about what is happening in California state public school systems. It is terrible. And parents in various states around the nation should watch for it because it is spreading. There are now nine states that have adopted similar concepts. And our own state here in Colorado is right on the verge of implementing the same general concepts. What happens in California tends to spread throughout the nation. And I just want to alert parents everywhere that your children are at risk. That's gonna make some educators very angry at me. But given what's taking place in these classes and especially the emphasis on something called gender fluidity, that encourages children to choose their gender. And if they don't like the way they were designed, then they can make their own choices. Teachers are also required to talk in detail about gay and lesbian behavior, and orientation, abortion, HIV prevention, and many things that children should not be taught. Now parents, if you're trying to teach your kids about morality, chastity, abstinence, biblical principles [inaudible 00:02:42], and male and female concepts and assignment, what marriage is all about. If you're teaching that understanding of sexuality to your children, the work that you're trying to do may be contradicted and undermined in the local schools. And what we want to do with our program today is to alert parents to what many public schools are trying to do with your children.

Now to help us talk about this subject, I want to introduce you to a guest that I have great respect for. She is Cathe Laurie, who is the wife of Pastor Greg Laurie, who founded Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, California. And Cathe has become something of an activist on this subject. And we were together a while back and she shared her concerns with me. And I validated them and I've now invited her to join this discussion. Cathe, you've been listening to what we had to say. Tell me if the situation is as bad as I described it.

Cathe Laurie: It is. It is bad because the program that was voted in by our assembly without being put up to a vote initiated the most aggressive sex education, health education in the country. And although we may think we can just pull our kids out of school, say they were sick, or we're going on vacation, you can't run from this issue. As a matter of fact, the teachers that are teaching in our public schools are being put through a course of being taught that gender is not just male and female. Gender is not defined by our body parts. Gender is not defined by what God has stated in the Word, but by their own preference, their sexual orientation. That they can determine what they are based on how they feel. And that gender is a range of expression now.

And, unfortunately, it's not just what's happening in those health-ed classrooms that are shaping and molding culture today. It's what's happening on the playground. It's happening on kids as they're obsessed with their cell phones. It's also happening in our churches. We have kids in our Sunday school, in our children's ministry, in our youth ministries that are confused and expressing that confusion. And so, what we're up against really is a huge tidal wave of change. And as we know, the scriptures are very clear how to define our gender. We are told we're male and female. But unfortunately, that is not necessarily being understood by our kids.

Dr. Dobson: You know, Cathe, that phrase that you used referring to the tidal wave of change is what we're up against as Christians. Everything is up for grabs. And what we do to deal with it as adults is one thing. But how our children handle it is another. I'm reminded of Psalms 11:3 that says, "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" In other words, when the culture begins to deteriorate like this, and this is not the first time in history that it's happened. I mean this goes all the way back through recorded history. Well, it affects even those people who are trying to serve Christ and are trying to live according to biblical principles. And that is a struggle because our children are being undermined and overwhelmed by the culture itself. In many ways, it does not conform to Christian principles.

Cathe Laurie: Well, the promise in Isaiah 43 that is so comforting to me is the Lord says, "When you pass through the waters I will be with you. And though you pass through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned." And I'm holding on to that promise for my home, for my children, for my grandchildren, for our church. That God is able to raise up a standard against these lies if we are aware of what's going on, avail ourselves of what the scriptures teach, and make that clear to our children and our grandchildren.

and we need to let our children know what God's word says, and to do it in a loving way. Because I believe the Lord wants us to reach into the LGBT community and bring the gospel to them as best we can.

Dr. Dobson: When the culture goes through one of these radical transformations, it forces parents, and churches, and others in the community, Christian community, to rethink how they're teaching their children. You're forced to talk about things you'd rather not discuss. At least not for children age five for Pete's sake. And yet, you have to inform yourself and make sure you know what's happening in the culture so you're prepared for it and you're not caught napping because you can lose your kids if you're not careful.

Cathe Laurie: Exactly. We had a little boy in our, what we call our Bridge Ministry, which is, it's the fifth and sixth grade ... The kids that are going into junior high, a little too old for the elementary school education and the fun songs they sing. So, we have a ministry that targets that specific age. And one of the little boys in the prayer time was asking for prayer for a friend of his because this friend did not know whether he was a boy or a girl. So that kind of thing in fifth and sixth grade is being dealt with by children in our church. We need to know how to answer those questions. And a lot of the confusion is becoming very, very early. Eight and nine years of age is when they're being taught.

Dr. Dobson: You know, Cathe, my advice for parents has been for a long, long time I've been talking about this. Especially related to sex education. But it's to teach children what they need to know when they need to know it. You will waste your time trying to teach a one year old how to tie his shoes. Because that information is not needed yet. And it will come later. and if you get ahead of yourself, developmentally, you can create some problems. Kindergartners have no need to know a lot about homosexuality, and lesbianism, and about intercourse, and oral sex, and transgender ideas, and you have to be very careful. When you wade into those concepts, those are adult behaviors and concepts. And you don't want to do a whole lot that will create confusion in the mind of a child. Tearing into sexual discussions that the child is not ready for and I think is a big mistake to get into. It goes counter to the child's development. The periods of development. That's my field and it's why I'm deeply concerned about it.

Cathe Laurie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, we need to be because it's being reflected even in the increase in suicide that we're seeing among young people. We were very, very sad that just recently we lost a little boy who was 12 years old. Who had an argument with his mother over his cell phone, went into his room, locked the door, and hung himself. How does-

Dr. Dobson: Oh, God help us.

Cathe Laurie: How does a 12 year old boy know how to do such a thing? I think there's a great deal of depression and confusion. They say that among transgender people and people who are struggling with their sexual identity that 41% of them have attempted suicide. And I know what the LGBTQ community would say about that. They would say it's because they're being bullied and rejected. And there may be some element of that. But I think, like you said, just recently, you said that when the foundations are destroyed. That is what's happening is we've destroyed the foundations. We've taken away all guard rails, all boundaries. And kids are absolutely at sea. They don't know what to believe. They don't know how to think. And we as parents and we as the church have got to stand on biblical truth because we do have a foundation and that is the word of God. And we do have guard rails because God has given us his commands as to how best to live a happy life.

Dr. Dobson: Cathe, let's talk about the trend today where boys and girls are being together in locker rooms and using the same bathroom facilities. That is so stupid. It just takes my breath away. At that age, kids are on a different developmental time table. And some of them have gone into puberty and some have not. Can you imagine being stared at or looked at by people of the opposite sex? What about teachers that are in there watching this? Again, this is just so foolish that it's beyond belief.

Cathe Laurie: Yeah, absolutely. These are the legal rights of what they call "trans youths" in our schools, in our classrooms, that they are allowed to identify with whatever gender or variation of terms that there are so many things that they're being able to call themselves now. It's not just as simple as LGBTQ. There's everything in between. It's this gender fluidity. And a child may one day identify as a female and the next day identify as a male. I have another friend who sent her daughter off to New York, NYU. It was her first year and she was in a classroom. Not in a classroom, actually in a dormitory. And that year, she was exposed to a roommate who was very sexually open and promiscuous. And so, she decided next year she would go back to school and she would go to a suite instead of a single room dorm. But in that suite, she thought she had suite mates who were female. But as she met these suite mates, she realized they were not females, they were males who had identified as females. And halfway through the year, they had reassigned their gender to now they were gay men. So, it's just crazy. I don't know how in culture, in the military, in the police departments, in our schools, how we're going to function. It's getting more and more confusing.

Dr. Dobson: Yeah, I think our children are being victimized by this, what I would consider to be a social experiment. Nobody knows where that's leading. What are the long-term implications of this? I think it's not going to end well at all. And who's gonna pay the price for it? It'll be our sons and daughters who grow up confused. And they have a different set of moral commitments and understandings. The biblical teaching is at risk. And I just see incredible problems down the road. Now, Cathe, tell me what's happening in your neck of the woods. Is there an uprising over this change in bathroom policy? Are parents intimidated and afraid to speak? Or are they speaking out?

Cathe Laurie: There are a few ... As far as the school boards and the parents in this area, there was a big uproar over the law that was passed. But, by and large, it's been really interesting, but they say that Orange County represented an extreme reaction to the law. But since then, they have seen it's just in small pockets. Overall, this has been accepted and this new law has been flowing pretty nicely into our schools. So, that is rather discouraging. And a lot of parents have opted to homeschool their kids. But, unfortunately, many of the homeschool programs are set up as charter schools. And this is eventually going to make its way into the charter schools as well. So, I think that amongst some, even in churches here, local congregations, we're aware the pulpits have gone silent on this issue. There are not that many that are willing to teach through The Bible and address those issues.

Dr. Dobson: Cathe, I thank God for your husband, Greg Laurie. He's a great friend and I especially respect him because he's willing to teach the entire word of God and tell people what it says. And he's not intimidated. This can be an intimidating topic because there's so much anger related with it.

Cathe Laurie: Well, we have God's word and we have his truth. And it doesn't shift and change with culture and with winds that come and go because what is accepted today, in a few years will be unacceptable. And it'll change back again. And we don't really know. We're gonna reap the whirlwind if we continue down this path. But we do know what God's word promises. And God's people have survived throughout history, many onslaughts against the kingdom. But we've prevailed. And there will always be a remnant that will hold true. And we pray that we'll be that faithful remnant.

Dr. Dobson: Well, I know I'm gonna make some people really angry with me for what I'm about to say right now. And in fact, I hinted at it earlier. But if I had a youngster who was being exposed to all these things in the way that is highly offensive and contradictory to what Shirley and I believe and what we have taught our kids, I would not leave them there. I would not. I would either homeschool them, or get them into Christian schools, or I would move. I would be willing to move. Sometimes it takes that kind of change. It takes that kind of commitment. But your son and daughter will be warped and twisted by the teachings of the culture. And that will have a predictable end if you let it continue and you know better. It's not going to be good.

Cathe Laurie: I think that the burden really does fall on the church and on parents to be aware and to be engaged. Unfortunately, too many parents, and I might even add, too many Christian parents, have allowed cell phones into the hands of their kids that are unguarded. They are allowed to access the internet. And even if your child isn't allowed to, they may have a friend that has access to this stuff. So, we have to be really, really aware. We have to be having these conversations in an appropriate manner to their age group, obviously. But at the same time, we have to be having these conversations with our kids.

Dr. Dobson: Well, that is exactly why we're doing this program today. As I indicated, California may be leading the way in these radical programs, but the culture is changing in every state.

Cathe Laurie: It is.

Dr. Dobson: And parents are gonna need to deal with it. They've got to be informed and know what their boys and girls are experiencing. I'm getting calls from parents and grandparents saying that their children or grandchildren are being twisted by some of this ideology. What am I to do? That is a tough question to answer but tough questions have to be taken to the Lord as a place to begin.

Cathe Laurie: Well, we're told uphold the Word of God. We are to live it in a loving way. We're going to communicate these truths to our children, to our grandchildren. As a church we're going to continue to preach through The Bible. We're gonna pray. We're gonna get on our knees and we're gonna ask God to protect our kids and we do the best we can. We have to stand with God's word, Dr. Dobson. And unfortunately, it's not a comfortable conversation to have in the public arena. But we have to be able to stand with what The Bible teaches.

Dr. Dobson: Well, Cathe, as we approach the end of this discussion, I want to tell you how much I appreciate you're willing to take a stand. What kind of pressure has been put on you for what you're doing in being an activist for your children? Have you been criticized or attacked in this way?

Cathe Laurie: No, I have not. We as a church have not had any specific attacks. We know that there are those out there that would be hearing this program will be very angry with what we're saying. But we have ... What the Bible describes as sin is not to be seen from our own personal point of view. Because sin, as God defines it, and he is the judge of the world, and of the universe, and we will answer to Him one day, it is to see sin as a crime and as a disease. And if we don't present the truth that The Bible teaches, that sin is sin and it is deadly, and if we sideline the things that God's word is teaching, and decide on our own that we're going to go silent or we're going to accommodate what culture is saying, then we are going to be guilty. We have to stand up.

So, at this point, we haven't seen that. It's not to say that it won't come. But as a church, we are praying for protection because you never know. You just never know. Lawsuits get filed and things happen. And you find yourself in a terrible situation. And then some of these cases eventually will make it to the Supreme Court and we hope that we will not be discriminated against in that way, that our voices will not be silenced. And if - we have to speak no matter what. We have to be willing to stand up no matter what comes our way.

Dr. Dobson: Well, Cathe, what you've said today and bringing this to my attention at a conference that we attended, and what you said during our discussion today has really been enlightening and I appreciate your courage to stand up and be counted. I also enjoyed talking to you. I want to talk later about your book, As I See It, and it's actually a compilation of stories, and homilies, and things that you have written. And I am really anxious to talk to you about it. So, would you come back and be with us again?

Cathe Laurie: I'd be honored to. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Dobson: Well, I hope you'll give your husband, Greg, my regards. And of course, all of our friends at Harvest Christian Fellowship, we appreciate what you all do.

Cathe Laurie: I will do that. Thank you, Dr. Dobson.

Roger Marsh: I'm Roger Marsh and you've been listening to Family Talk and Dr. Dobson's interview with Cathe Laurie. I pray this insightful conversation opened your eyes to the dangers of this progressive sex education curriculum. Learn more about what's going on in California by going to the broadcast page at We have a link to the Department of Education to see a breakdown of what actually is being taught. Again, that's and then click onto the broadcast page. And please remember that the James Dobson Family Institute is supported by listeners just like you. We really appreciate your financial assistance and your continued prayers for Dr. Dobson and the ministry. I'm Roger Marsh. And that's all the time we have for today's broadcast. Hope you'll join us again next time for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.

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