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Kyle TerMarsch: Hi everyone, this is Kyle Termarsch, broadcast producer here at the James Dobson Family Institute.
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Roger Marsh: Hi this Roger Marsh for Family Talk. Do you remember Dr. Dobson's touching interview with Rebekah Gregory?
Rebekah Gregory: The hardest part of that day was not the physical, though. It was the emotional. It was everything that not only I saw, but my son saw as well.
Roger Marsh: Or what about the powerful interview with Dennis Prager?
Dennis Prager: Nice people can do damage. Nice is not the same as wise. Lack of wisdom creates evil, not lack of niceness.
Roger Marsh: There were so many great Family Talk moments this year. It may be hard to pick your favorite, but don't worry, we've done it for you. We've selected eighteen of the most popular broadcasts of the past year, and present them to you together on six audio CDs, in the 2019, Family Talk Best of Broadcast Collection! These entertaining and informative programs are sure to bless you and become a cherished part of your family resource library. This compelling CD-set is our thank you for a suggested gift of any amount in support of Family Talk. Learn more at drjamesdobson.org, or by calling 877-732-6825. Thank you, and God bless you.
Roger Marsh: Welcome to Family Talk, the radio ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Roger Marsh, thanking you for joining us today for what is going to be a very special radio program. Throughout the entire month of December, we are highlighting the broadcasts that were the most listened to during the past year. So, sit back and enjoy this popular program from 2019, right here on this special edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.
Announcer: Today, on Family Talk:
Dr. Dobson: Well, hello everyone, I'm James Dobson and you're listening to Family Talk, which is a division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. Let me give you a little bit of background for today's program because you're gonna enjoy what you're about to hear.
Recently I attended an NFL football game with some friends, and on that day I met with two of the people who were gonna be there, and one of them is with me today. He is Doug Mazza, his wife is Lorraine, she wasn't able to be with us today, they're from California. But Doug and I did have lunch that day and we had a fascinating conversation that I know you will want to hear.
Doug has had an incredible career, first in the military, and later as an executive for the Suzuki and Hyundai car companies. But what touched me emotionally that day was hearing about the 19 years that he has spent in leadership with the ministry known around the world as Joni & Friends. Joni is a quadriplegic, as most of you know, and she has devoted her life to Jesus Christ and to helping people who are disabled in various ways. And Doug is the president of that organization.
He and I began talking about Joni, and about her husband Ken. And he told me some stories about these wonderful people and how they live their lives day by day. I asked him if Joni would allow you, Doug, who's sitting here with me, to tell the inside story and to give some of the aspects of their life that Joni won't talk about because she's such a humble, godly person. But she did give permission for us to talk about some aspects of her life and her ministry that you may not have heard before. These are absolutely wonderful people, and I want you to hear how they live day by day. And you will be touched by what I learned about them.
First, let me introduce Doug Mazza to you, and I say to him, welcome my friend to Family Talk.
Doug Mazza: It is my privilege, thank you Dr. Dobson.
Dr. Dobson: Yeah you know I think of Joni, frankly I know as a human, I think of her as a saint. She comes closer to it than anybody I have known. Isn't it incredible how she has lived her life?
Doug Mazza: It is absolutely amazing. I've been by her side almost 20 years now, and I am as impressed at the end of the 20 years as I was when I first joined her in ministry.
Dr. Dobson: Tell the story again of how she broke her neck.
Doug Mazza: Well Joni was 17 years old in 1967, and took what she calls a reckless dive off a raft in the Chesapeake Bay. It had been a place that she took a dive many times, but the storm the night before had shifted the bottom of the Chesapeake, and so what she thought was seven feet of water was only three feet. And being an athlete she did a perfect pike dive straight down into the water and smashed her neck at the bottom, and immediately felt an electric shock pass through her body. And as the pain subsided she saw an arm floating by and realized it was hers, and that she was under the water and paralyzed, and had no way of lifting her head.
Her sister happened to be walking away from the beach the opposite way, and a crab bit her sister on the toe, and turned around and she said, "Joni watch for crabs," and she saw Joni's hair floating in the water and knew it just wasn't her behavior. And walked out to where that raft was, Joni was under the water for a very long time now, and reached in and grabbed her by the bathing suit. And just as Joni was about to take a gulp of the Chesapeake, pulled her head out of the water and saved her life. She has been paralyzed from the shoulders down ever since, and recently celebrated 52 years in a wheelchair. And only Joni would celebrate 52 years in a wheelchair.
Dr. Dobson: Yeah that's just like here to consider that a matter of celebration, because it has not been easy.
Doug Mazza: It has been painful the entire time. People don't think of quadriplegia as painful, but Joni lives with chronic pain. I asked her years ago, "Tell me what you mean when you talk about chronic pain as a quadriplegic." And she said, "I don't feel anything on the surface of my body, in fact when I'm going down the hallway I feel like a floating head. But in my core I feel like there's barbed wire around my spine. And every time I move I feel this shock of pain that comes up through my shoulders and neck." And she endures this incredible pain with the grace that we can't imagine.
Dr. Dobson: What does she experience when she wakes up in the morning?
Doug Mazza: Well when she wakes up in the morning she's told me that if she gets a really good night's sleep, which is unusual, she's awake every couple hours and has to be rolled because she cannot roll herself.
Dr. Dobson: And Ken does that.
Doug Mazza: And Ken spends the night doing that. I don't know that Ken's had a good night's sleep at home for their entire marriage of more than 35 years. He is a saint himself I can tell you, a dedicated husband at a level that I cannot even imagine. When Joni wakes up in the morning she tells me that if she is sound asleep and waking up there are, every once in a while, not very often, but every once in a while she will actually forget she's a quadriplegic and try to roll and then remember, oh no, I'm paralyzed.
So, she said, "there are no professional quadriplegics, and I'm not one of them." She said, "I suffer with this every day." But Joni has a core of friends that help her in the morning. Her morning is quite strenuous, she has to have a bed bath, she is exercised, she is given her physical therapy, someone helps her with makeup and clothing. So everything ... Her teeth are brushed by someone else. Everything that she does has to be performed on her. And when she wakes up in the morning she will say, "Oh Lord, I don't have strength for this today. I just don't have the strength to be a quadriplegic today, and I don't have a smile for these women that are gonna come in and help me today. But Lord, you have strength and you have a smile, can I borrow your strength today? Can I borrow your smile?"
And she tells me that when she says that prayer every morning, by the time the coffee is dripping in the coffee pot, and the woman opens the door, she has a smile and executes the strength for the day. It is an amazing way to start her day. My wife is one of those that have helped her in the morning, and it's an exhausting exercise.
Dr. Dobson: Does she take medication through the day for pain?
Doug Mazza: Joni does not take medication, she will rarely take an aspirin. She endures her pain, she wants to be wide awake. She does not want to be chronically addicted to anything. She will sometimes take over the counter things, but it's extremely rare that she will take anything that is a prescription. Joni spends more time with the Lord than anyone that I have ever met. She doesn't take special credit for that, she said, "Doug I don't have other choices. I can't reach for a cookie or decide I'll watch television now, or turn on the radio." Someone has to perform everything for her. So, she has decided, spiritually and consciously, that her day is gonna be spent with Jesus Christ. And that keeps her from anything that would resemble pity. And what I've learned from her, I think this has been one of the most important things I've learned from Joni Eareckson Tada, that the measure of Christian maturity is the level of your outward focus.
And if you think about that, Jesus was 100% outwardly focused. None of us can be 100% outwardly focused. I know that those of us that serve in ministry, or serve through our church, or serve our families, we attempt to the best of our ability to be outwardly focused. But I've never met anyone that spends more time outwardly focused than Joni Eareckson Tada. She is in constant pain, and yet always looking for someone to pray for. So, there isn't a moment wasted of Joni Eareckson Tada's time that isn't spent with the Lord. I wish I could be more like that, she is such an example. I have tried, but her intensity of relationship with Jesus Christ is something to behold.
Dr. Dobson: And you know what, she came to Focus on the Family when I was there, and she sang for us with Robert and Bobbie Wolgemuth. I mean so many things that she's accomplished with this disability, it really takes your breath away.
Doug Mazza: It would be interesting for a person in a wheelchair to be a good vocalist, but you have to understand Joni, as a quadriplegic, has very little lung capacity. So the sound that she is able to get out is medically interesting.
Dr. Dobson: When we were talking together you told me about an orthopedic surgeon who said something about Joni, share that story.
Doug Mazza: Yes, we have a friend that is an orthopedic surgeon, and in speaking with him I asked him, "What has caused you to get involved with Joni & Friends and why do you take such an interest in Joni?" And he told me, "As an orthopedic surgeon, I know that Joni can't sing. I know the hand of God is on her in order to be able to make that sound." And then he went on to tell me all of the things that should've happened to Joni by now as a quadriplegic, and for over 50 years in a wheelchair, and it actually terrified me. So I know that God's hand-
Dr. Dobson: Most people would be gone by this stage of life wouldn't they?
Doug Mazza: We are not personally aware, maybe this radio program will reveal someone that has spent over 50 years in a wheelchair at the level of injury Joni has, especially with her accomplishments. If there are others out there, God bless all of you as well.
Dr. Dobson: Talk about the early days of the ministry, Joni & Friends, because it was really tough getting started wasn't it?
Doug Mazza: The ministry was not doing particularly well 20 years ago. And we created a plan that we felt was Christ centered and Biblically based, and we stuck to it. It was completely out of scripture, and we just decided that God had waited 2000 years to fulfill Luke 14: 21 and 23. It was Jesus speaking when he said, "Go quickly to the streets and allies of the town, and bring in the poor, and the lame, and the blind." And then in verse 23 he said, "Go out to the roads and the country lanes and compel them to come in so that my house will be full." And we have dedicated all 40 years of Joni & Friends to doing nothing except that.
And we pray that that has been honoring to God, that Jesus has waited 2000 years for someone on a global basis to believe that that can be accomplished. So, we feel we are foot washers to the church. We want to help the church in that plight of reaching out to people with disabilities and including them in the fellowship of the church.
Dr. Dobson: But, there were hard times getting started. Even 20 years in you all didn't have enough money to run the ministry properly.
Doug Mazza: No, probably ministry leaders out there can relate to our experience.
Dr. Dobson: Amen, brother.
Doug Mazza: Where you get down to almost zero. Business, I learned, I had come from the business world and if were in that position we probably would've closed the doors. But faith is a fantastic thing.
Dr. Dobson: You even thought about closing the doors at one point.
Doug Mazza: We thought about cutting way back. If things continued the way they were, how would we keep the ministry alive with a handful of people? And I had a fantastic business partner at Joni & Friends, and after looking at this plan of what we would do in a doomsday project, we went home very tired and depressed that night and we decided, tomorrow we'll start fresh. The next morning, we got back together again and he said, "Doug, I prayed about this, I read the plan completely. This is a God honoring plan, he will not abandon Luke 14:21 and 23." And I pushed back in my chair because in business we wouldn't have taken that approach when we were as low as we are. And he said, "We're actually supposed to increase everyone's salary in a few months, let's just stick with that commitment for now."
And I can tell you Dr. Dobson, the ministry from that day never looked back, we surrendered everything, all control, to Luke 14:21, and 23, to God's promise that he wanted this accomplished and that we would imperfectly, to the best of our ability, fulfill the mandate. And Joni Eareckson Tada already had the vision, the voice of God who spoke those words to go out to the streets and allies of the town and bring in the poor, the lame, and the blind. But the ministry continues to grow and thrive nationally, and around the world.
Dr. Dobson: Doug, when you talked about the plan that was not really applicable to the corporate world, what did you mean?
Doug Mazza: What I meant by that was that in the corporate world, the amount of faith that we were putting in the plan would not exist. We were operating completely on a bell curve of faith, it had nothing to do with what the numbers were telling us.
Dr. Dobson: Didn't you have a boss in the corporate world who told you that it would not be appropriate to bring God into that setting?
Doug Mazza: Yes, evidently I was expressing my Christianity at work more than the corporation was comfortable with. And you have to understand I was at the top levels of leadership in this particular company. I was the highest ranking American in the company at the time, but was told that there was no place for God in the office place, that it was for Sunday.
Dr. Dobson: And that played a role in your leaving that company.
Doug Mazza: Yes. I decided that at that point of maturity that I was beginning to experience something that will be ongoing my whole life, that I was not going to back up on my Lord.
Dr. Dobson: Doug tell us about the diagnosis of breast cancer that occurred several years ago. You were there when that information came to light.
Doug Mazza: Yes. Joni found a lump on her breast some years ago and went to the doctor and was waiting for the final diagnosis. Her husband Ken came to my office door, Joni and I were having a meeting. And he came in and said, "Joni, I just heard from the doctor." And I said, "Oh, let me allow you to have the room." And Joni said, "No stay, I want you to hear this." And Ken said, "Joni you've got stage three cancer." And there was quiet in the room. This was the first time she'd heard malignant cancer, at stage three. It was quiet for a moment, and long enough that I actually had time to think, I wonder what Joni Eareckson Tada will say. And finally she looked over my shoulder, kind of gazing out into space and said, "Hmm, God is up to something very big."
And I thought, "What? You just heard you have stage three cancer and your response is, 'God is up to something big?'" Later that afternoon I was in her office, and I asked, "Joni, tell me more about what you were thinking when you said God is up to something big." And she looked at me disappointed a little, like I still didn't get it. I'd been there 10 years by now. And she said, "Doug, when I look around the world at what God has done with my quadriplegia, why wouldn't he do something with my cancer." And then she raised her arm to the best of her ability, even though she has no feeling in her hands, and she said, "Doug don't waste my cancer." And I said, "Yes ma'am." And we became very involved in breast cancer awareness, and reaching out to people with breast cancer. And we did not waste Joni's cancer, and she was declared cancer free for eight years after treatment. Recently, very recently, she has heard that that cancer has returned. It has been removed once again, and she is going into treatment optimistically.
Dr. Dobson: She is not in despair?
Doug Mazza: Not in the least-
Dr. Dobson: All of the pain, all of the implications of a disability of quadriplegia, and she's not complaining about it. I mean that puts me to shame for the petty things that frustrate me.
Doug Mazza: We feel that way all the time at Joni & Friends. I mean, this is an example that, to use the word example is not honoring. She does not hold herself up as an example, and yet we have to look at her as an example of who we could be if we really dedicated our entire lives to Jesus Christ. And to just live in a state of faith. And Joni just exemplifies that more than anybody I personally have ever met, and I've traveled the world.
Dr. Dobson: When we got the diagnosis that Joni had breast cancer and that it had metastasized, we got Joni and Ken on the phone for an interview. We wanted to talk to her about it and let her share with us how we could pray for her. And it was one of the most inspirational programs that I've ever been part of. People loved that broadcast, and we have aired it since then because it's such a powerful testimony to depending on God when things have gone wrong and they continue to go wrong, and she doesn't complain about it. You told us earlier in this program that she's in pain every day, from the moment she wakes up, throughout the day and maybe in the night. And then she comes up with breast cancer. I mean how difficult does it have to be for this woman? I mean all the rest of us would be despairing.
Doug Mazza: She has turned her pain into a ministry. I know some people that endure extraordinary suffering on a daily basis and maintain their faith, and Joni is a leader for all of those people.
Dr. Dobson: Before we end the program, Doug, and our time is almost gone, we all know about the fires in California in November of 2018. Your ministry, Joni & Friends, was located very near one of those fires, and it was so devastating. I don't know how many homes were burned. How close did the fire come to Joni & Friends?
Doug Mazza: Well the fire burned down the mountainside. We but up against the Santa Monica Mountains, Ladyface Mountain is right behind us, and comes down to our property line. That fire burned over the top of that mountain, burned all the way down the mountain to our property line, and stopped.
Dr. Dobson: With no explanation?
Doug Mazza: With no explanation. If you were at Joni & Friends this very day, above our property line, you will see black charcoal, and below our property line you will see trees and grass. Ken Tada went to the building immediately upon being allowed in. No one was in the office, it was too smoky to even be at work. And he took a picture and sent it to me as a text. It was a picture of our flag at half-staff, which was flying at half-staff for the victims of the fire and of a shooting that had just taken place in our area the day before, with a hawk standing on top of the flag pole and the burnt scape behind us. It was quite a moving photo.
Dr. Dobson: Obviously the lord has his hand on that great ministry.
Doug Mazza: We have accepted that, yes.
Dr. Dobson: Doug Mazza thanks for all that you do, and are doing for Joni & Friends. The Lord created you for that assignment, it would sure look that way, doesn't it?
Doug Mazza: I am blessed, and honored, and humbled to have been able to serve alongside Joni, and more importantly to have served the Lord in this very special way.
Dr. Dobson: Thanks for being with us, and tomorrow we wanna talk about your story, which is also inspirational, and you'll be with us again.
Doug Mazza: Thank you.
Dr. Dobson: Okay.
Roger Marsh: You've been listening to Family Talk, and Dr. Dobson's interview with Doug Mazza. I'm Roger Marsh, and I pray this insightful conversation about the life of Joni Eareckson Tada encouraged you. She is an incredible woman of faith who truly lives her life for the glory of God. Visit today's broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org to learn more about Joni and her thriving ministry. Simply go to drjamesdobson.org and then click on the broadcast icon.
I hope you'll be with us again tomorrow as Dr. Dobson continues his conversation with Doug Mazza. Doug will be sharing the story of his son Ryan, who was born with severe disabilities, it's a touching conversation you won't wanna miss. It's coming your way next time right her on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.