Rick Scarborough: Best friends forever.
Dr. Dobson: Best friends forever. You and I, I feel like I've known you forever. You first came to Focus on the Family many years ago to do a radio program. What was that? 20, 25 years ago?
Rick Scarborough: Around 1996. I'd just published my first book and I sold a ton of them because of your recommendation.
Dr. Dobson: Well, those have been interesting days and I appreciate so much you being here. Dr. Rick Scarborough is a seasoned Southern Baptist minister. He's an author, speaker, and founder of the nonprofit organization Recover America NOW, that tells you a little bit about what he believes. He previously pastored First Baptist Church in Pearland, Texas. That's right near Houston isn't it?
Rick Scarborough: Southeast side of Houston. Yes, sir.
Dr. Dobson: And I lived down in the Rio Grande Valley. So, I lived just below you there. That was from 1990 to 2002. And since leaving the pulpit, Dr. Scarborough has been encouraging pastors to stand on biblical truth, and to call their congregations to vote their values at the polls. Dr. Scarborough has a doctorate in ministry from Louisiana Baptist Theological Seminary. He and his wife Tommie, she's a friend of mine too, have three children, one of them is in heaven, and four grandchildren. And Rick, I am delighted to have you back.
Rick Scarborough: Pleasure to be here Dr. Dobson.
Dr. Dobson: We've been in the studio together many, many times.
Rick Scarborough: Yes, sir. You've been very kind.
Dr. Dobson: We share so many values and beliefs and your battles are my battles. And I want to support what you're doing any way I can, because I believe in you, Rick, and I'm grateful for you because there's a diminishing number of ministers who will take the heat. And it is not an easy assignment is it?
Rick Scarborough: No, it's not. But if in today's world, you're not causing conflict, you are not preaching the gospel as it's written. And I wanted to say this just as a reciprocal compliment, but when I ride down the highway, one of the few last prophetic voices I hear is Dr. James Dobson. Not only do you minister to families and have written such incredible books, but you never shy away from the issues. And it gives courage to the rest of us who have smaller voices to stand up - and well I like to say, "Stand up, speak up and refuse to give up." And as long as there's resistance for God's truth, there's a chance for this country, but I'm afraid the resistance is diminishing.
Dr. Dobson: Rick, I'm sure you and I agree on one fundamental fact: the Lord has given us a voice and someday we're going to stand before him and have to give account for what we have done. And I don't want to be embarrassed in that moment and my welfare and what people think of me and pressures that are put on me are irrelevant to that overall objective. Serve the Lord Jesus Christ with a willing heart, regardless of where the scripture take us, that's where we will go.
Rick Scarborough: I live to hear "Well done, thou good and faithful servant." I don't think there's any other accolade that even registers in comparison, but the one thing that every living human being can be is faithful. And everyone that's faithful will hear the father say on that day, "Well done, my beloved son." And so the highest honor there is, is one that anyone can attain if they just commit themselves to be faithful, even unto death, if necessary.
Dr. Dobson: Well, my other guest is Corbin Casteel. He's a COO of the Jonathan Project. We're going to be talking about that today. I should have mentioned it to this point. He's a graduate of the University of Texas. Tell me about your family.
Corbin Casteel: We've got four kids, 13, 11, a nine year old in Haiti who is coming home in the next two weeks, so we'd appreciate your prayers on that to make sure-
Dr. Dobson: And your wife is Nicole.
Corbin Casteel: My wife is Nicole, and we have a one year old boy. So three boys and a girl, we are finished.
Dr. Dobson: Well, you both are involved in this Jonathan Project. Rick, tell us what in the world that is, who is Jonathan?
Rick Scarborough: Well, Jonathan, the first question I asked when I was interviewed by Nathan and Corbin about a position with the Jonathan Project is, "why the name?" Just didn't seem logical. I was told that Mr. Herschend, who had this whole idea of voter registration on his heart, he called these men together and he assembled some of the best theological minds in the state of Missouri with some of the best political minds, like our friend Nathan Adams. And he said, "I want this ministry be the friend of the pastor, just like Jonathan was a friend of the anointed one, David." And so the whole ministry was designed by a very wealthy, godly man, to make everything as easy as possible for the anointed pastor. If we're invited into a church to assist, it costs them nothing because of the generosity and the vision of Mr. Herschend, hence, Jonathan Project, we're a friend to the pastor.
Dr. Dobson: So, you see faithful pastors at this point, just being critical to the outcome of this election, because you want to get their people registered and get them out to vote.
Rick Scarborough: And one thing we've learned, Dr. Dobson, is every pastor thinks more of his people are registered than are. It's humorous from our perspective because we have the technology to find out what the actual facts are. But with the Johnathan Project, we can eliminate all suspicion and we do it all for the church. We can give as much service in that area to the pastor as he desires, or as little.
Dr. Dobson: What does that really mean? How do you serve the pastor?
Rick Scarborough: Well, in the first place, we only come by invitation, but once we come, we have several levels of service we provide. We actually have some of the best Bible study materials that they can use for a month or up to two months in the church curriculum if they choose, or they can condense it and use it as a devotional thought about the importance and relevance of Christian involvement in government and why it's important and essential that Christians vote their values. We give them sermon helps and starters, including a couple of sermons that I have been blessed by God to write, that we make available to the church, if they need some help in that area.
And then we do everything for them, in terms of voter registration. We can come to their church and train their registrars, or on some occasions in mega churches, we even provide our staff to come and assist in the actual registration. But I think the greatest gift we have is the technology afforded to us by Mr. Herschend, who perfected the technology for [08:14 inaudible]. And of course, Corbin, I've asked him to come because that's his forte. But we have access to technology that the world has been using for years to sell their products, that we use to glorify Christ and to diagnose who's voting, who's not, and make sure we get them registered.
Dr. Dobson: Corbin. I'll ask you to put that into your own words. You come into a church, at their invitation and you say, "We will do everything we can to help you inform and get your people registered to vote and to get them to the polls on election day." And then a whole series of services are flowing from that. Is that correct?
Corbin Casteel: That's right. Of course, every state has different voter registration laws. To this, the bigger states that we're in right now are Texas and Florida. And those two states have some of the most arcane voter registration laws in the country. It still requires a piece of paper and a pen to register to vote, so that presents some other challenges. And obviously there's some states that have online voter registration, which makes it a bit easier. But we attack it from multiple fronts. Much like churches have, it used to be just Sunday school. It's also now small groups or connect groups or life groups, or what have you. Much like life groups and connect groups hold each other accountable, maritally, financially, spiritually, this is just adding one more element to that accountability of holding each other accountable civically to ensure every member of our small group votes.
And that's why we work directly with churches and pastors, typically associate pastors, to help us identify the leaders of those small groups, to make sure all of the members of their groups are registered to vote, now that's one arm of it. And that's also why we provide the small group materials as Rick referred to. Videos, promotional videos, each has a different theme of service and about four themes, because it's for four weeks up until the voter registration deadline, typically in the month of September, but it can be done throughout the year.
Dr. Dobson: Rick, you guys are up against a mountain here in the sense that Christians have historically a shameful record of not coming to vote, not letting their voices be heard. It takes 15 minutes to do that. And more than 50%, and if you figure those that are not registered, it's about 75% who do not bother to let their voice be heard. There's something wrong with that. I just can't believe God is pleased with that. This is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. It's not the politicians. It's not even just the religious leaders, it's the people. And if we don't let our voices be heard, then anything can happen and we take the blame for it, or we should.
Rick Scarborough: If we don't show up and stand up on our principles and vote our values and vote for people that reflect those values, then we're going to lose even our religious liberty, which is in danger as we speak.
Dr. Dobson: Is that an overstatement or is that for real?
Rick Scarborough: No that's no overstatement.
Dr. Dobson: Are we really in danger of not being able to worship God in the way that we interpret the scripture?
Rick Scarborough: Here's what I believe. Satan never gives back ground that he's taken. It has to be taken back by force. And by that I don't mean armed force, I mean, for spiritual warfare, I mean through prayer and then getting up off your knees and as James, the half-brother of our Lord so clearly said, making our faith work, putting our faith into the workplace by exemplifying what we believe by the way we act.
Dr. Dobson: So much depends on this election coming up. We don't want to be too specific about that, but there is more than one point of view being represented here. And one of them is opposed to most of the things that we care about and that we consider to be non-negotiables.
Rick Scarborough: 35 million people in this country who self-profess to be followers of Christ didn't even bother to vote in the last presidential election. And these are, by the way, I want to qualify that, these are evangelicals who attended church at least twice a week. And they didn't even show up to vote.
Dr. Dobson: 35 million, it would change everything.
Rick Scarborough: Exactly. What kind of response have you had from the pastors? Have they been willing to invite you in?
Corbin Casteel: They have. And what we have seen is that most of the pastors that we are talking with, and obviously we're talking with a lot of the larger churches at first, they understand the battle we're up against, but what they don't necessarily understand is the best way to wage it, and that's where we come in and help.
Dr. Dobson: Rick. I'd like you to talk directly here to the person who historically has not voted. We'll say it's a person who does not follow politics, does not listen to Fox News, does not avail themselves of the information that's out there, and don't want anything to do with it because politics is dirty. And so they just have not had a habit of going to the polls and voting. Say something to them that might make a difference.
Rick Scarborough: Just look at what's happening all across America right now. In the streets, there are four different groups of people in these protests. There are the honest protestors who want to address what they believe to be some things that are wrong, and I welcome them, let's have the conversation. Then there are the groups like Antifa and the more radical groups that fly around the country and congregate, and they subvert these protestors by creating all manner of riots. They throw bricks through windows and assault our law enforcement agencies-
Dr. Dobson: Burn buildings.
Rick Scarborough: That's right. And then there's just the outright criminal that looks around and says, "Hey, the stores are open. Let's go in and take everything we want and walk out and kill somebody if they get in the way." And then there's the law enforcement officer, who's being vilified. Many of them are retiring early and walking away from their career. Because for the first time in my lifetime, they're being scorned and treated like the enemy. And it's hard to even imagine why shouldn't they walk away? But it's not hard to determine who's pro-life and who's pro-family, who loves America, and who does not. And then walk in and vote your values. There's nothing wrong with a pastor sharing his convictions. And by the way, there was a time or two, I had to go back and say, "Hey, I got that wrong people." We will, we're imperfect, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Dr. Dobson: Corbin, tell people how they can access your organization and how they can get the information you're providing.
Corbin Casteel: Sure. Jonathanproject.org is our website. Rick's email address is rs@jonathanproject.org. On that website, we can accept contributions and also you can contact our organization from there as well. And I wanted also to make a point of what we do not do because often that gives pastors a lot more confidence and security in what we're doing. One, we don't promote any party or candidate. We are a 501-C3 tax deductible organization. And we follow those guidelines to the letter of the law.
Dr. Dobson: As do we.
Corbin Casteel: As do we. We do not ask any church for their directory. That is a big one with many pastors we've come to find out because often those directors have to-
Dr. Dobson: You don't try to raise money from them.
Corbin Casteel: We do not raise money from the church congregation, nor do we ask to be added to the church's budget. We are self-sufficient. We raise our own dollars. And we don't distribute voter guides. The groups that do distribute voter guides require a C4 status, and they have to stop at the steps of the church. And those voter guides get left there. And there's no way to measure what happens with those voter guides. Where Jonathan Project stands out, and I'm a political strategist, I've done this for 25 years, it's the best I've ever seen for registering voters, period, much less evangelicals, is it's the measurability, is we can tell you exactly how many church members from this church are registered to vote, are not registered to vote, do turn out to vote, not how they vote.
Dr. Dobson: The accuracy, you can tell that?
Corbin Casteel: We can get the most accurate measurement of voter participation of a church that's ever existed.
Dr. Dobson: Rick, now that we're involved in the pandemic, which just seems to go on and on, and many churches are closed and many people are sequestered at home. Are you still able to get out and about? Are you still going to churches and making your case?
Rick Scarborough: Absolutely. And I'm not, if they'll have me come right now, I'll come. But absolutely. We can guide those who needs to be registered, and we've raised additional funds, or we're in the process of soliciting additional funds. So if we have to, we'll do it all by mail, but we're not going to sit back and see this election go by without doing everything in our power to mobilize the church, who is God's instrument on earth to bring revival apart from which this country cannot survive.
Dr. Dobson: And that's the key issue right there.
Rick Scarborough: That's what drives me, Dr. Dobson. I want to see God glorified in this country as he should be.
Dr. Dobson: We talk often about a third great awakening, explain what that really means.
Rick Scarborough: Well, the courage to fight the war for independence was spawned by the first great awakening, primarily spearheaded by George Whitfield, a lot of other great preachers. Then throwing off the tyranny of slavery, the Civil War, the courage to fight that war was spurned by the second great awakening, primarily led by Charles Finney, who was himself an attorney before God called him to be the greatest preacher of his era. We need once again, to stave off what could be yet another Civil War. We need revival, and that means-
Dr. Dobson: You see that as a real possibility.
Rick Scarborough: Oh, I do Dr. Dobson. I mean, evil's not stopped unless it stopped. But if we just sit back and hide in our homes and wait for the next government check, then we're going to see this country literally dismantled and destroyed. We've even got elected members of Congress calling for the complete changeover of the structure of our country economically, and in every other fashion. They're not hiding their design any longer. That's why we need godly men and women in office, and only Christians can put them there.
Corbin Casteel: And to piggyback on that, Rick, Jeremiah 29 tells us, "Seek the welfare of the city, where I've sent you into exile," and seek is an action verb. If it were an English class, it would say, "You seek," in order to add the noun, the subject to that sentence. "Seek the welfare of the city." And then James tells us, "Faith was active along with his works. And faith was completed by his works. For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from its works is dead." And that's where I believe the church has failed, is working out our faith. We do pray for the welfare of the nation, yes, but we're instructed verbally, specifically by God to act, to seek the welfare of the city. And we hear so much about mobilizing evangelical voters, mobilizing the pastors and pews.
What does that really mean? Well, at the end of the day, it really means voting. If the people of God turn out to vote, this country will be led by people of God. And tens of millions of babies will be saved. Generations of families will flourish and grow in Jesus name. So we do have a responsibility that we as evangelical leaders have not succeeded in over the years. And this is what Jonathan Project is working to help make better.
Dr. Dobson: Even though you don't program them and tell them how to vote or who to put in the office, if you get them to the polls and they have a heart for God, most of them will do the right thing.
Corbin Casteel: We believe, and data supports that if the only targeting we do is the church. If this church is aligned with us, evangelically philosophically, If this is a Bible believing, Holy Spirit led church, we believe 9 out of 10 people in that church that we register to vote, will vote for a pro-family, pro-life candidate for office. And that's pretty good odds. Obviously we follow the legal guidelines, but we don't want to get into the partisan stuff. I did 20 years of that, of fighting the Republican battles against Democrats and things like that. I don't do that anymore because I don't believe that's where the battle is won and lost. That's not the battlefield. The battlefield is for our spirits and we are in the midst of spiritual warfare. And if those who love Jesus and follow Jesus will simply act with their vote, this election cycle alone, we can keep the halls of Congress in the hands of pro-family leaders.
Dr. Dobson: Rick, why did you leave the pastorate for this assignment?
Rick Scarborough: I left the pastorate because I had to. I felt compelled to. Jerry Falwell in no small measure, encouraged that. He saw me as the next generation of leaders in this movement. But there were so many people asking me to come and speak, that I tried for a while to do both and couldn't. But I saw that there was such a need for pastors to be mobilized, that I had decided to devote the rest of my life to finding those key men who'll stand and empowering them. I felt myself as one to go find those small church pastors who love this country and are willing to die for it and connect them together and create an army of pastors who could change the country. And I still have that calling on my life.
Dr. Dobson: Well, you've made a great contribution. Corbin, any last thing you want to say to our listeners?
Corbin Casteel: We thank you for having us on. We welcome your listeners' help and support, and we look forward to helping your church leaders that are listening here and help us register Christians to vote and turn them out to vote on election day. That's all we do.
Dr. Dobson: And your website again?
Corbin Casteel: jonathanproject.org. And you can email Rick here at rs@jonathanproject.org.
Dr. Dobson: Before you guys go, I just really feel that I need to take us in one more direction. We need to talk about money. Your organization, could do a lot more if you had the funds to do it. And you are working in how many states?
Rick Scarborough: Right now, we're working in three for sure. But we've got requests from a number of the key battleground states. It's simply-
Dr. Dobson: You don't have the resources to do it.
Rick Scarborough: And that's what's keeping us from-
Dr. Dobson: And if you had a little more money, you could do it.
Rick Scarborough: Yes, sir.
Corbin Casteel: We try to make it simple for the donors in that so many care about what are their dollars going to? So, we've broken down our budgets into, it's approximately $300,000 per congressional district. So we have been telling donors if you'd like us to come into your state and you care about the statewide outcome, let's focus on a few Congressional districts where we really need to make sure we have a pro-family candidate come out on top, and we will focus on those. That makes it easier for the donors to grasp where their dollars are being spent.
Dr. Dobson: So how can they send money?
Corbin Casteel: jonathanproject.org, or email Rick and Rick, what's your cell phone number?
Rick Scarborough: I don't think I'd give it over the air, but rs@jonathonproject.org. If they'll get in touch with me, I'll put them in touch with headquarters, give them addresses, et cetera. I'll even drive to where they live and pick it up.
Dr. Dobson: Listen, if what we've said today touches your heart and you see the need for turning out these people who don't ordinarily vote, who are not registered, and that you can make a difference in your area, then I hope that you will support this organization because it will be money well used. Thank you guys for your courage and for your coming to Colorado Springs to be with us. Keep us informed of how this project unfolds. And if I can help you, let me know.
Rick Scarborough: Thank you. Thank you Dr. Dobson.
Corbin Casteel: Thank you so much.
Roger Marsh: This is Roger Marsh, and you've been listening to a very insightful and meaningful edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. Today's interview really underscores the influential voice that we as Christians have in the political process. And we must not undervalue our role at the ballot box either, especially in this pivotal election year. Dr. Dobson's guests today have been Rick Scarborough and Corbin Casteel from the Jonathan Project. Learn more about their organization by visiting our broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org. That's all the time we have for today. Tune in again next time for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. Have a blessed day.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.