Roger Marsh: The following program is intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Greetings and welcome to Family Talk, the broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Roger Marsh, and we have a very special interview to share with you here today on Family Talk. Our guest is author Claire Culwell. Claire is an internationally known Christian speaker, pro-life advocate, and an abortion survivor. Her newest book is called Survivor: An Abortion Survivor's Surprising Story of Choosing Forgiveness and Finding Redemption. It's available now wherever books are sold, by the way. Claire is married to David and they make their home in Austin, Texas with their children. Today, Dr. Tim Clinton will be talking with Claire about her incredible story and God's faithfulness throughout her life. You won't want to miss a word so let's listen in right now.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Claire, what a delight to have you join us on this edition of Family Talk, thank you for joining us.
Claire Culwell: Thank you so much for having me, this is an honor.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Claire, when I went through your story, I was mesmerized. It kept me spellbound, really. Let's go all the way back to the adoption by your parents. You were adopted, it was a closed adoption and your parents, well they were unfamiliar with your birth story, like you were. Tell us a little bit about what happened to your birth mother.
Claire Culwell: My birth mother found herself pregnant at 13 years old, and there were a lot of decisions that were made on her behalf, and we'll discuss some of those today. But one of those decisions was for her to place me for adoption. My birth mother had been dropped off at an adoption agency and left there by her mother, and she delivered me alone in a hospital room and placed me for adoption with my parents. That was actually the only thing we knew about my birth mother and my adoption story, was that she was young. But as I'll share in there were so many other pieces of the puzzle that we didn't know that were life changing for us.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Well, Claire, you were a twin. Your mother wound up being basically forced by her mother, your grandmother, to go have this abortion. Obviously 13 years old, family situation, very complicated, tragic, horrific. We'll talk about what it was like for your mother, your birth mother to go through this process a little bit later, but Claire, can you explain some of the details around what happened? Your mom grew up in Oklahoma and she's what, 20 some weeks pregnant, and she's having to go have an abortion at 13 years of age.
Claire Culwell: She did. That was the most shocking news of my life when I met my birth mother and found out the backstory to my birth. You think all these years about meeting your birth mother and what that will be like, and I thought the worst thing that will happen will be she doesn't want to meet me. But what happened is I found out that I was rejected, unwanted and even aborted because I was a twin and my body was hidden because my twin was also in the womb. And it's typical procedure that doctors don't use ultrasound technology during an abortion procedure, and so they successfully dismembered my twin during a D&E abortion procedure that accidentally missed me. And my birth mother said she went back to the doctor a few weeks later and they told her that she had been pregnant with twins and that I had survived her abortion procedure.
That was when she was taken to Kansas, actually to have a second abortion. She said no doctor even spoke to her in the room. They didn't ask her what her choice would've been. They didn't ask her how they could help her, how they could make it possible for her to be a mother, to place me for adoption. Adoption was the option that was chosen after the abortion attempts failed. And when she was in Kansas, they actually said that her water had been leaking, and so they had ripped the amniotic sack that I was in, and that she was too close to delivery and it was too dangerous to perform a second late term abortion. So, she was driven back to Oklahoma, dropped off at an adoption agency, and I was born just a few weeks later at 30 weeks. And had physical complication, body casts and so many lifelong things that I have had to deal with.
But my birth mother said it was the most painful moment of her life when she had her abortion, and nobody stood up for her. She came from a hard family life. Her parents were divorced and when she told me about her abortion, she actually had to tell everybody else, her husband, her children, her father even, because this was her deepest, darkest secret. She said when her mother dropped her off at that adoption agency, after the two abortion attempts failed, she said, "You're going to shut up about this. Nobody's going to know," and so she held onto this secret until she met me.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Tell us a little bit about the family, the mom and dad who chose you, and what they are like.
Claire Culwell: I was adopted by a couple that lived in Dallas, Texas at the time. They were not able to have children naturally, they actually tried for seven years to have children naturally and then decided that adoption was the alternative to having children naturally. They were excited. They called an adoption agency and said, "We want to adopt children," and the call that they got was not the call they expected. They got a call that a three-pound baby girl was born that had physical disabilities, and they didn't know what life would be like for me. But fortunately for me, they said yes to God because they knew that His plans were good. And that's how I was raised. I was raised knowing that God had the best in mind for me.
I knew that I was wanted, chosen and loved, and I know that because of my upbringing, because of what I knew about God and who I was, because of who He said I was, but also who my parents said I was in their family, I knew going into meeting my birth mother, that circumstances would never change those things, those truths about me. So, my ability to respond the way I did and see hope and forgive my birth mother is truly a testament to my parents. I saw them be obedient to God and love people well. We lived in Mexico for a year growing up, in Costa Rica for a year growing up. In fact, the best year of my childhood was in Mexico at 13 years old, going to a Mexican Spanish speaking school. But my upbringing was truly what set the stage for what would come in my life and the shocking news that I would find out.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Claire, as I read your story and was thinking about your growing up years, it was quite fascinating how God was preparing you and the unique heart God was giving to you. You desired to become a nurse. You had a lot of interaction with different people who had different challenges in life, but God drew you to them. And again, was preparing you, I think, for a unique role in ministry that we're going to talk about later here. But tell us a little bit about what God was doing in your heart, what you really believe He was doing.
Claire Culwell: I believe that He was preparing me for such a time as this. There are so many instances throughout my life where I was put face to face with people that needed compassion, that needed empathy. That maybe weren't the person that fits in, that maybe were viewed as the outcast or the person that was a little bit different, or the person that was truly hurting. And for whatever reason, God gave me a heart of compassion and empathy for them. I believe that I was learning the value of human life and the dignity of every single life so that when I sat face to face with my birth mother, I would be able to truly have compassion for her, truly empathize with her.
That's what happened, when I met my birth mother and I heard that I had survived an abortion, that I had been a twin, the room was spinning out of control, but the loudest thing in the room was my birth mother's tears, the pain in her eyes. And I truly, truly empathized with her. I truly cared about her and forgave her. It wasn't until later that I began to think about how these things and these choices, and these injustices truly affected my life because I couldn't get past what had been done to her, and I cared. So, I think that it humanized every single person to me, but it also gave me this compassion that could see past how something affected me. I could see how it affected other people, and truly want to stand in the gap for people who are hurting and who are different from me.
Dr. Tim Clinton: In your story, enters a sibling. God gave you a sister, her name's Rachel. Tell us a little bit about Rachel, she too was adopted in your family.
Claire Culwell: She was. My sister was adopted two and a half years later and she is just the most likable person you'll ever meet. And we have funny stories growing up, we used to play orphanage as a child, that we were orphans and it's funny considering we were adopted, that we would play orphanage. And we would dream about what it would be like one day when we would meet our birth mothers. We wondered if it would play out like the movie, Annie. We were truly a little team growing up and I'm so thankful for her. It was actually her desire to meet her birth mother that sparked my interest, I guess, in reaching out and meeting my birth mother, because I got to see how much they looked alike and how much they acted alike. That's what sparked my interest in meeting my birth mother, was the fact that I wanted to thank her for giving me my life and my family, in the same way that my sister Rachel's birth mother gave her hers, and gave her to us.
Dr. Tim Clinton: You know, Claire, a lot of adoptive parents and adoptive children struggle over whether or not they should meet the birth parents. And for you, your parents felt very comfortable and they were open to it. And as a result of what happened with Rachel meeting her birth mother, God gave you this moment where you now were going to have the opportunity to meet your birth mother. Talk a little bit about what it was like to lead up to that moment, because as I read through the narrative, the day finally comes where you're going to meet. I think you were headed up to Dallas, and tell us what it was like, what was going through your heart, your mind, as you are preparing to meet your birth mother, and to figure out what the story was behind why she placed you, right?
Claire Culwell: I got a call from my adoption agency after I had called them, that my birth mother wanted to meet me, and I was so excited. I was excited to find out who I looked like, who I acted like. Also, I wanted to put these pieces of the puzzle together for my medical history, because I had had complications growing up. And even as a young adult, I had pain complications and just things that didn't make sense. So, we had questions, but we also wanted to thank her for what she had done for us. So I called the adoption agency and a woman named Debbie Campbell answered the phone, and this was Deaconess Adoption Home in Oklahoma City. And I said, "I want to meet my birth mother. Would you mind finding her?" And she said, "Oh my goodness, I'm actually looking at your picture on my desk. I've had your baby picture with your casts on your feet and your harness on your hips. I've had that on my desk for 21 years, so I know exactly who you are."
That was actually my first glimpse, truly, of what was about to come, what was about to unfold and what I was about to find out. And Debbie, my birth mother's caseworker, was able to reunite us 21 years later. I remember preparing for that moment, we went to Dallas, to the neighborhood just around the corner from where my parents brought me home from the hospital when I was adopted. And the couple that, we reunited at their house in Dallas, they were actually there when my parents brought me home from the hospital and helped my mom make my first bottle. So it was just this full circle moment and I remember my sister and I mostly, we were thinking, "Okay, what pictures do we bring, and what music do we play?" We had so many questions and so many details that we were trying to put together, but looking back, we say we never even heard the music because the moment I opened the door to meet my birth mother, it was like looking in a mirror. We look so much alike and I knew instantly that I loved her so much.
Dr. Tim Clinton: When you guys were standing and looking at each other, what happened inside of both of you? What was that moment like? And what was it like for the entire family?
Claire Culwell: It was absolutely incredible. As I said, I knew instantly that I loved her. She has a very gentle spirit, in fact, we have a very similar personality, but she was just so easy to love. And my parents of course, are the ones crying the most because they knew what a gift she had given them. She had completed their family, something that they prayed for years and years and years, and wondered if God had forgotten them, but all this time, He was waiting to show them exactly what He had for them. He was going to give them the most unwanted child and make her the most wanted child through their love. And I truly believe that I have been that because of the love of my parents.
It was another really full circle moment as not only questions were answered, but we were able to see like, gosh how life would have been different, but because of God, because of his faithfulness and his hand on my life, my life has been so incredible and has been preparing me for these moments right now, where He's using me in the way that He intended to.
Dr. Tim Clinton: You're listening to Family Talk. I'm Dr. Tim Clinton, your host. Our special guest today is Claire Culwell. She is the author of the book, Survivor: An Abortion Survivor's Surprising Story of Choosing Forgiveness and Finding Redemption. A lot of story here and amazing, amazing narrative that God has certainly woven together. Claire, I wanted to come back to that initial meeting was special, but you agreed to meet later. And about two months later, you're going to come together and this is going to be the time when you're really going to talk to each other about your life, your life story. Claire, getting ready for that, you decide in your heart that you're going to give your birth mother a present. Can you take us into that moment?
Claire Culwell: My love language is gifts and so I knew I wanted to give her something. The purpose was to kind of break down the lies that women, mothers who place their babies for adoption, what they believe about themselves, that maybe they weren't good enough mothers or whatever they think. I wanted her to know that she was the best mother for me because she gave me my family and my life. So, I got her a ring and a necklace, and they had my birthstone on it, and I was so excited to give it to her. I got there that day and gave her the ring and the necklace and on the plane on the way there, I had written a card and all I wrote, just because I couldn't figure out how to summarize everything I wanted to say, all I wrote was "thank you for choosing life for me."
I watched as she opened these gifts, I was actually standing to her side as she was sitting in her La-Z-Boy chair, in her living room, and I watched her open the ring and the necklace and she cried happy tears. It was the moment that I was putting her necklace on her, fastening it in the back, that I watched her open the card and read what I had wrote, and everything changed in that moment. She said, "Claire, there's something I need to tell you. I actually didn't choose life for you." And I remember thinking this is supposed to be the happy moment. This is supposed to be our moment where I tell her what she's longed to hear for 21 years, and yet all I see is pain. She had tears streaming down her face and she was shaking, and I thought, "what in the world could she be about to tell me?"
We sat on this bed in this room and I remember she turned and faced me and it was the most painful look, still to this day, I have ever seen in anyone's eyes. And she said, "Claire, I was not only 13 years old, but I was told that abortion was my only option by my mother. I had a D&E abortion procedure that successfully aborted your twin, but you survived." She began to tell me this entire story and it was the most shocking, the most life-changing moment in my life as I was able to put together the pieces of the puzzle. That the woman who has an abortion is someone like my birth mother, and the person who's been affected by abortion is someone like me, and the reality that I didn't think about these things. I didn't hear about these things from my church, from my family, from anyone that I knew until I learned that I had been the person who was affected by it. Her tears changed my life that day.
Dr. Tim Clinton: As I read in your book, Claire, it told of your mother being in a clinic alone and scared. I can't even imagine a 13-year-old girl basically told that after it was over, going back to school the next day, the whole episode, we're just going to move on and pretend like nothing ever happened. As she is telling you, Claire, your birth mother's telling you this, I'm sure you felt like you were talking to that 13-year-old girl. They say in trauma that people don't remember what they went through, they relive it. And no doubt in that moment, she was reliving what it was like for her at 13 years old. And these words, I wrote these down in my note, this is her mother talking to the doctor after she found out that you were still alive in her, "We can't let that little whore get away with this. It will embarrass the whole family. Get rid of it." Claire, I don't know what you do in that moment as a daughter with your mother. What began happening inside of you?
Claire Culwell: I put myself in my birth mother's shoes and at 13 years old, who do you trust? You trust your parents, you trust that they know what is best for you. So, as she's telling me these things, I think that's the one of the things that truly helped me empathize with my birth mother, is that I believe and know that she was a victim too. The eye-opening part for me is that this is happening every single day. This is happening to 13-year-old girls every single day across the country, and I believe that it's happening because the church is apathetic and silent. So, the abortion industry is over here, screaming, "We're here for you. We have what can solve your problem, and we're going to walk alongside you through that."
I believe that the church should be screaming even louder. "We're here for you. We are going to support you and love you and walk alongside you. There is grace and hope for you." So, because of how I was raised, I think that I was able to humanize not only the unborn child through the knowledge that I had been a twin, through the knowledge that my humanity was no different than your humanity or anybody else's humanity. That my choice as an unborn woman was denied, but also my birth mother's was, she wasn't given a choice. Nobody said the words that every single woman and little girl like her longs to hear in their moment of desperation, which is, "You're not alone. You can do this because you are strong enough and we are going to be there along the way." I longed for that for her, and so my choice to forgive her was instant because I knew that she deserved to begin her healing journey just as much as I did.
The beauty of that is that you're right, she relives those feelings, those emotions, every single time that she tells our story to someone. She said that she can smell something and it takes her back. She can watch something and hear something and it takes her back to that moment. And I don't know that that will ever change, but the beauty is that our story, the way that we tell it, the way that we think about it, it has changed because we have victory over what has happened to us because Christ has victory in that.
Dr. Tim Clinton: In your journey, your adoptive father said, "Always remember Claire, we wanted you. We chose you. And even though you're older now, we still love you more than anyone has ever loved a child." What a story. We've got more to come. Stay with us for the second part of a story of amazing redemption that has come her way too. And a lot about her ministry that God's doing to help her be one of the strongest voices out there in the pro-life movement. Claire, thank you for joining us.
Claire Culwell: Thank you so much for having me.
Roger Marsh: Claire Culwell is truly a warrior for the preborn. Her powerful testimony has touched lives all over the world, and we hope that it has blessed you today as well. That was just the first half of Claire's conversation here on Family Talk with Dr. Tim Clinton. Make sure you join us again tomorrow to hear the conclusion. Now to learn more about Claire Culwell, her ministry and her brand-new book, visit our broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org. Again, that web address is drjamesdobson.org. Or give us a call at (877) 732-6825 and find out how easy it is to order a copy of the entire conversation between Claire Culwell and Dr. Tim Clinton. That number again is (877) 732-6825.
Roger Marsh: Well, that's all the time we have for today's broadcast. From all of us here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, I'm Roger Marsh. Thanks for listening today to Family Talk. Join us again next time.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.