What it Means to Be a Godly Man (Transcript)

Dr. Dobson: In the typical family today, is Dad thought of as a hero, or a bum? Believe it or not, the answer may depend on what Mom thinks. This maternal influence was beautifully described in a book called Fathers and Sons by Lewis Yablonsky. He told about growing up in a Yiddish home and sitting around the dinner table listening to his mother say things like, "Look at your father. His shoulders are bent down; he's a failure! He doesn't have the courage to get out and get a better job or make more money. He's a beaten man." Yablonsky's father never defended himself. He just kept staring at his plate. As a result, his three sons grew up believing that their father really was a wimp. They never noticed his virtues, or the fact that, indeed, he worked very hard for a living.

Yablonsky concluded with this statement: He said "My overall research clearly supports that the mother is the basic filter, and has enormous significance on the father/son relationship." Yablonsky is absolutely right: children tend to see their fathers through the eyes of their mothers, picking up the subtle attitudes that lie just below the surface. How much better for a wife to praise her husband, to point out his strengths, to position him in the children's eyes as someone with courage and principle? Mom's gonna need the influence of a strong man in the lives of her children. She'd do well to contribute to that masculine leadership.

Announcer: Hear more at drjamesdobson.org.

Mark Morley: Hi, this is Mark Morley in human resources with the James Dobson Family Institute wishing you and yours the merriest of Christmas seasons and a happy New Year.

Mike Simpson: And this is Mike Simpson with the constituent care team and again, we wish you all a Merry Christmas, plus, on behalf of Mark, we want to give every one of you a special gift today.

Mark Morley: Uh, Mike, I believe we're out of time.

Mike Simpson: No, no, no, no! But you told me about that gift…oh, wait, wait, we were gonna sing them a song. THAT was the gift. Are you ready to sing?

Mark Morley: We are really short on time today Mike.

Roger Mash: This is Roger Marsh for Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, a part of the Dobson Family Institute. Throughout the entire month of December, we're highlighting our most listened to broadcasts from the past year. Now, before we hear one of those popular shows, I want to share some news with you. A few weeks ago, a group of generous donors blessed us with a generous matching grant for this Christmas season. This effectively doubles every donation we receive, until we've reached our goal. Learn how you can be a part of this match by going to drjamesdobson.org. That's drjamesdobson.org. Or, you can call for more information, at 877-732-6825. That's 877-732-6825. And now, here's another one of our most popular broadcasts from 2019, on this edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.

Announcer: Today, on Family Talk:

Dr. Dobson: Well, hello everyone and welcome to Family Talk, which is a division of the James Dobson Family Institute, I'm your host Dr. James Dobson and my guest today is my colleague and my friend Dr. Tim Clinton. He's a very well-known professor and author and a counselor and he's president of the American Association of Christian Counselors, which has over 50,000 members. This man is deeply qualified to deal with the subject we're going to talk about today. Tim, it's so good to have you here, I'm going to make an opening statement and then I want to turn it to you, but thank you for being here, you got up at 4:00 this morning to be here today.

Dr. Clinton: We were going early, but I'll tell you what, Dr. Dobson, I'm so delighted to be here. It's always fun to get here at the Family Talk headquarters and by the way, to talk about something near and dear to our hearts.

Dr. Dobson: I can tell that that really matters to you and it does to me, and I can't wait to get into it. Did you sleep on the plane at all?

Dr. Clinton: I got a nap, you know, a cat nap but I'm good to go.

Dr. Dobson: Today we're going to take a good hard look at masculinity, which is embroiled now in an all-consuming culture war. Everything manly is subjected to ridicule and resentment in some quarters, especially by some women in the feminist movement, but it's much broader than that. Now, this is not a new phenomenon of course, it goes back to the 1960s when the sexual revolution exploded on the culture and turned it upside down. I am old enough to have lived through that time. And it was generated primarily by the feminist movement that began with such anger at everything traditionally masculine.

I remember playing tennis one day, and there were two women playing on the court next to us, and as it happened, we both finished our games at about the same time. And I went over and gathered my gear and I walked toward the fence and one of the women who had been playing next to us was also leaving and we got to the gate at exactly the same time. And I did what I had been taught from early childhood, that a gentleman should always defer to a girl or a woman in a situation like that, and I opened the gate and I stepped back and I let this lady go first. And to my surprise, that made her livid. You'd have thought I had slapped her in the face and called her a bad name, but all I had done is treat her with respect and I had stepped back and let her go first.

She huffed at me as she went through the gate and then she turned and looked back at me in utter scorn. Well, that was something that I wasn't used to and in fact I didn't understand it because I had never encountered anything quite like that before. I didn't know that there was a revolution going on at that point. And I had been taught, as I said, when I was a boy and later as a man, that when I was on a bus or a train and a woman was standing nearby, I should always stand up and offer my seat to her. And if she needed help lifting her suitcase down from the compartment above, that was what I was going to do.

I was going to offer to do, it was a way, again, of showing respect, but all the rules changed in the 1960s, because every symbol of traditional masculinity was interpreted, or reinterpreted, as an insult to women. And now, men didn't fight back for the most part at that time but we seemed confused by it all, that just simply had never occurred to us. The media became very energized by the feminist movement and during that time commentators began referring to men, believe it or not, they referred to us as "male chauvinist pigs." That was not occasional, that was used. That was said over and over again. We were called pigs. And I wonder if there's anybody in our listening audience who still remembers that or knows about it, because the culture continued to evolve. And this hostility of women to men is still very intense and personal, but it's become a matter of a great deal of comment in the popular culture.

Well, that division between the sexes never really subsided, instead of calling men pigs, now we're called by the term toxic masculinity, certainly from those in the media. The New York Times just recently quoted the American Psychological Association in an article that was reprinted in Psychology Today, and it claimed that traditional masculinity, and I would consider biblical masculinity, is actually harmful to boys. There's a major effort to depict masculine men as broken and need to be fixed. They are being ridiculed and mocked and men still don't seem to know what to do in response. This is a stupid position to take, it's not only dangerous for immature boys, but also to mothers in their relationships with their husbands.

This assault on masculinity tears into the very fabric of the family, which is what we stand for here at Family Talk. Jesus said that the creator made two sexes, he made them male and female, very, very different from each other. And everything depends on harmony between them in the best interest of bearing and raising children. And in every aspect of society, what does it mean for a man to behave in ways that are appropriate? From a biblical point of view, in the illustration I just gave, should a bigger, stronger man like me, I was young, I was six foot too and in my prime, should I push a woman aside trying to get through a gate and leave her on the ground? Does that make sense? Is that what she wanted?

Tim, that's just the beginning, but you are very deeply involved in the men's movement. You spoke recently and hosted an event that had 5,000 men in attendance, I think it was a sellout, wasn't it?

Dr. Clinton: It was, Dr. Dobson.

Dr. Dobson: And you told me the other day that there was great energy there and great passion. First of all, describe your reaction to what I've said and then tell me where you see this going.

Dr. Clinton: Dr. Dobson, I stand with you, we don't agree with the APA, the American Psychological Association's position. I think what they've done is they've moved into this political correctness kind of sphere, and they're more worried about making a statement in that direction than they are even following what they deem is science. You know, when you read-

Dr. Dobson: There's no science in that.

Dr. Clinton: I know, but they're pressing in that direction and it really is an assault on maleness, is what we're talking about here. Dr. Dobson, in that event, we saw something different. There was a stirring among these men that was palpable, you could reach out and touch it. If you were in the midst of it, you sensed a group of men who are there not wanting to flex their muscles, but wanting to get their voice back, to have an influence. To be men who deeply cared about their families, to be a dad, a man of honor. Someone who was present, someone who would renounce sin, someone who stood strong in the face of adversity, someone who wanted to protect, to provide, to love.

Dr. Dobson: They've taken that away from them, what would you have done at the gate?

Dr. Clinton: I'd have opened the gate.

Dr. Dobson: Sure, you would do that-

Dr. Clinton: I was taught that.

Dr. Dobson: You don't push her aside, you're not gonna compete for space-

Dr. Clinton: Of course not.

Dr. Dobson: -coming through a gate

Dr. Clinton: You know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's just unreal but I watched a lady today on the plane. I was seated back away two rows and she was trying to get this big heavy suitcase out and she couldn't get it out, and a lot of the men were standing there. I think some of them were nervous to reach over and take it.

Dr. Dobson: Yeah, you don't know what to do now.

Dr. Clinton: I know, they were like frozen, but I'll tell you why. I think men are tired of this beat down, of being looked at as buffoons, as being marginalized, as seen as nothing more than porn addicts or bad husbands or what have you, and all just sort of shoved into that box. Dr. Dobson, there's some real men out there, who by the way, I'm not saying that there's not brokenness. We're not saying that there hasn't been violence perpetrated against women and they've been silenced, but we can't swing the pendulum completely the other direction.

Dr. Dobson: That's the case. That's it in a nutshell. A lot of behavior that's been shown by men has been reprehensible. Women have been sexually abused. They have been taken advantage of. They've been abandoned and they have been drunkards, there's lot of sin out there, let's face it, but that's not what biblical masculinity means. And setting all that aside and turning our back on it, we need to know what is the role that we should play.

Dr. Clinton: You know what I'm finding too among the women, they want men to take their rightful place. They want them. Remember, they're married to them, they have sons, they have dads, they have beloved men in their life that they really do care about. They don't want to see them beat up. They want them to have their-

Dr. Dobson: Or wimpy, lacking in confidence-

Dr. Clinton: No, they don't want that. They want men to be strong. They want them to stand for what's right, for righteousness, to be able to face times of adversity, to understand what it means truly, like David to Solomon. Show yourself a man, Solomon. Adversity and trial are going to come, but he doesn't stop there, he goes on and says, listen, follow the ways of the statutes of the Lord with everything you've got, make sure that's in your heart.

Roger Marsh I'm Roger Marsh and we have reached the midpoint of this best of broadcast selection. I hope you have enjoyed our lookback at the most listened to programs from the past year. Now before we resume this broadcast I want to remind you that our ministry is entirely listener supported and right now every donation we receive is being matched dollar for dollar thanks to a generous grant. Now this match won't last long, so visit drjamesdobson.org to learn how to support us. That's drjamesdobson.org or you can call 877-732-6825. We understand that during this time of year, money can be a bit tight for just about everyone, so please know how much we truly appreciate whatever you can give in supporting the ministry of Dr. Dobson as he continues to fight for the family. Again, you can call 877-732-6825 and a member of our staff will be happy to tell you how you can donate or you can go online to drjamesdobson.org. As always, we covet your prayers and we appreciate your financial support. Ok lets tune back in now to the remainder of this popular edition of Family Talk.

Dr. Dobson: Tell me more about that event that took place. Express what that excitement was intended to convey. What was going on in those men?

Dr. Clinton: We wanted to have an event that lifted men up, that encouraged them, because they so often get beat down by everything in their life.

Dr. Dobson: Watch prime-time television, the sitcoms that are out there, the men are always fools. They're shown to be complete wimps, the things they say are disgustingly foolish, and they're saying something about the worth of a man. And the woman is always young and beautiful and she usually turns away or says something to express disgust for her man, for her husband. And that gets conveyed to the next generation. We've got millennials have been raised on that, that's all they've seen, they've never even seen a man who was a "man's man." A caring, loving, protecting, providing man's man, that's what the Bible teaches.

Dr. Clinton: Dr. Dobson, when I get one-on-one with men and we talk about what's going on in their inner world, ask them about their relationship with God. They say things like, "I wish I knew Him better." How you doing as a dad? A lot of people think he's disengaged or doesn't care. You know what? You know what kind of an answer? "I think about it every day."

Dr. Dobson: Is that right?

Dr. Clinton: "I want to be a good dad. Is it too late for me? Can I-"

Dr. Dobson: You have just become a grandfather?

Dr. Clinton: I have.

Dr. Dobson: And you're pretty excited about that. You're going to be a good granddad to that little baby girl?

Dr. Clinton: With everything in me, it's a whole different world, I love it.

Dr. Dobson: Tell me about her.

Dr. Clinton: She is Olivia Anne and my daughter Megan, by the way we have Julie Anne, my wife Julie, my daughter is Megan Anne and now this is Olivia Anne. And we call her princess O, I call her princess O. And she reminds me every day she's in control, that I get to see her. She's a joy. She's brought so much happiness to our family. And I realize the significance of bonding at another level. The preciousness of life. The power of influence. The significance of being there and shaping that little heart, those hands, that's what this is all about.

Dr. Dobson: Tim, you would give your life for that family, wouldn't you?

Dr. Clinton: I would.

Dr. Dobson: You would protect them to the death?

Dr. Clinton: In a heartbeat.

Dr. Dobson: And if you feel like I do, I think the greatest joy I've gotten in life is feeling like I'm responsible for that family. And I am providing for them to the best of my ability, and I care about every aspect of what takes place in that family.

Dr. Clinton: Think about it every day, every moment, pretty much, of every day.

Dr. Dobson: I think men want to do that, they want to play that role, but it's been taken from them and they're made to feel like fools.

Dr. Clinton: It's time, and I think there's a holy stirring that's going on. There's something happening, I think, who knows, the last couple of years it's like culture is in this spin, the forgotten man, the forgotten woman. Getting a voice in the midst of all of this saying, "Listen! We're not going this way, it's time for a turn. It's time for an uprising. It's time to stand up. It's time to take our place, our rightful place in this moment. If not us, who? If not now, when?" Those are the kinds of things. And when you see in an invitation, two, three, 4,000 men responding to a call from the-

Dr. Dobson: Did you really have 5,000 men there?

Dr. Clinton: We did. I'll tell you what? The alter call was stunning.

Dr. Dobson: Tell me about it.

Dr. Clinton: You should see all these men, I'm envisioning it right now, coming forward in droves. Rick Rigsby is speaking, you're going to hear from him later this week. As he's speaking, he gives the invitation, the altar is flooded. There are stories of men all over the place where they're hearing men audibly crying and weeping on their face before God, praying that God would help them in so many ways. Help me to be a better dad. Help me to get over this porn addiction I have, so much more. God do something right now in my heart. You know why? Because we opened up with a message that said: men matter!

We opened up with a message that says, dad's matter. And it's never too late to be a good father. You can step into that role even right now. God help us to do those things. That was the cry of the event, because the messages were so poignant. They were so right there saying, listen to me, you. It was like, you were the only person in the audience, you make all the difference in the world, Our prayer is that God will do something special, that only He can do, and that God would stir, cause a holy stir among men in this hour and that there would be an uprising so that men would take their rightful place and that heaven would be blessed or glorified in this whole process.

Dr. Dobson: We're out of time, I wish we could take the time to pray now but our time has gone, but we will be praying together and I'm asking those that are listening to us, pray for the men in your life this week. We need to be praying together because we got to turn this thing around, we're going to lose the family if we don't get this straightened out, and only the Lord can do it. Thank you, Tim for being here.

Dr. Clinton: Dr. Dobson, I'm so delighted to be here and we stand together on this issue.

Roger Mash: This is Roger Marsh and you have been listening to a program from Family Talk's best of broadcast series for 2019. Today we highlighted Dr. Dobson's meaningful and pertinent discussion with Dr. Tim Clinton from earlier this spring. We pray that their conversation has encouraged men to embrace their God designed masculinity despite the attacks from the culture. Now if you would like a copy of this interview, simply go to today's broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org.

There you will see the order a cd button and you can have a polished broadcast cd sent directly to you. Again that's drjamesdobson.org and then click on today's broadcast page. While you are on our website, we also encourage you to visit our helpful blog tab as well. There you will find numerous entries from Dr. Dobson, Dr. Tim Clinton, and many from our past radio guests. Our bloggers write about issues relating to parenting, marriage, faith, and culture. Our mission is to truly support you in whatever area you might be struggling in so take some time and read through any of our uplifting blogs when you go to drjamesdobson.org. Another helpful resource you should be sure to check out is Dr. Dobson's valuable newsletter. Ever month he writes his personal thoughts on issues facing the institution of the family. This is an informative letter that we want you to have without any further financial obligation so call 877-732-6825 and a member of our team will be happy to mail you our latest publication. That number again is 877-732-6825.

Well that's all the time we have for today's broadcast. Be sure to join us again tomorrow as we revisit Dr. Dobson's powerful interview with Rebekah Gregory, a survivor of the Boston Marathon bombing. Over the next couple of days, she'll be talking about how God brought her through that incredibly traumatic experience. It's a fascinating program you won't want to miss and it's coming your way next time on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.

Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.

Roger Marsh: Hi this Roger Marsh for Family Talk. Do you remember Dr. Dobson's touching interview with Rebekah Gregory?

Rebekah Gregory: The hardest part of that day was not the physical, though. It was the emotional. It was everything that not only I saw, but my son saw as well.

Roger Marsh: Or what about the powerful interview with Dennis Prager?

Dennis Prager: Nice people can do damage. Nice is not the same as wise. Lack of wisdom creates evil, not lack of niceness.

Roger Marsh: There were so many great Family Talk moments this year. It may be hard to pick your favorite, but don't worry, we've done it for you. We've selected eighteen of the most popular broadcasts of the past year, and present them to you together on six audio CDs, in the 2019, Family Talk Best of Broadcast Collection! These entertaining and informative programs are sure to bless you and become a cherished part of your family resource library. This compelling CD-set is our thank you for a suggested gift of any amount in support of Family Talk. Learn more at drjamesdobson.org, or by calling 877-732-6825. Thank you, and God bless you.

Dr. Dobson: You know long before a teenage girl finds her first real boyfriend or ever falls in love, her attitude toward men is quietly being shaped by her father. I'm one of many phycologists who believe that the dad and daughter relationship sets the stage for all future romantic involvements. If a young woman's father is abusive and aloof, she'll spend her life trying to find a man who can meet the needs that he never recognized in her heart. If he's warm and nurturing, she will look for a lover too equally. If he thinks she's beautiful and feminine, she'd be inclined to see herself that way. But if he rejects her as unattractive and uninteresting, she's likely to carry self-esteem problems into her adult years.

I've also observed that a woman's relationship with her future husband is significantly influenced by the way she perceived her father's authority. If he was overbearing and capricious during her earlier years, she may be inclined to precipitate power struggles with her husband throughout their married life. But if dad blended love and discipline in a way that conveyed strength, she may be more comfortable with a give and take marriage. Once again, I say so much of what goes in marriage starts with a girl's father and that's why it behooves us as dads to give our best effort to raising our daughters with love and respect.

Announcer: Hear more at drjamesdobson.org
Group Created with Sketch.