Roger Marsh: I've been a fan of sports for as long as I can remember. In fact, I can remember going to my first major league baseball game. We had just moved into a new neighborhood and my dad invited one of the other dads down the street and his two sons if they'd like to come see my now beloved Angels playing the Minnesota Twins on what was opening night in 1969. I can still remember the stadium, there were about 10,000 people there and how wonderful it was to see a live baseball game. And it's one of those experiences that I relive over and over again with my own kids and now with my own grandson as well.
I'm Roger Marsh. Sports do bring people together. The rivalries, the hard work it takes to succeed. And the energy of the crowd are just a few of the things that make watching and participating in sports so much fun and playing a sport can help us learn so many life lessons about teamwork and perseverance, how to win well, how to lose well, and more. Well, our guest on today's edition of Family Talk has been a sports fan his entire life. His name is Jason Romano. And for 17 years, he was an Emmy award-winning producer at ESPN, the ubiquitous television, radio, and content network, synonymous with sports programming. He left that dream career though, to follow the calling that God placed on his heart to host the Christian Sports Spectrum podcast. This podcast features athletes, coaches, entertainers, and other personalities, sharing their stories on the intersection of sports and faith. His goal is to point more sports fans to Christ.
Jason Romano has a fascinating story that goes way beyond working at ESPN and Sports Spectrum though. It's a story that began at an early age with pain and ultimately ended with patience and forgiveness. The interview you're about to hear was recorded at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Dallas, Texas earlier this year. Dr. Tim Clinton, our co-host here on Family Talk led the discussion. Let's go there right now.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Jason, thank you for joining us on this edition of Family Talk. It's great to have you.
Jason Romano: Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you.
Dr. Tim Clinton: What an amazing career. First of all, when I think of sports, everybody goes to ESPN. Everybody goes Sports Center, and you start thinking about everything from Monday Night Football to Mike & Mike, you name it, all this stuff, and you were in the heart of all of it. And you spent how many years there?
Jason Romano: 17 years.
Dr. Tim Clinton: 17 years at ESPN and anybody that lives in sports is thinking, oh my goodness, you're going to stay there forever.
Jason Romano: Pretty much.
Dr. Tim Clinton: You made a decision to hang it up.
Jason Romano: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: What was behind all that?
Jason Romano: It was very hard, very difficult. You asked what's behind it. I mean, God is the number one answer because if it were up to Jason, I would've stayed for as long as they would have allowed me to. But in my faith and my journey with Christ, it started growing to the point where I felt... And I didn't know if it was from God, but you feel kind of nudges some time that you think are from the Lord. And it was a couple of years before I left in 2015, where I started to have these nudges like Jason, I want you to do more for me. That's what I felt like God was saying. It wasn't an audible voice, but it was something I just kept feeling like, oh God, okay, you want me to do more for you, what is that? Does that mean leaving ESPN?
Dr. Tim Clinton: Wow.
Jason Romano: And I started to build some relationships with people who were in ministry, but doing similar work to what I was doing. And I said, "That's really fascinating that there are people out there doing things that I do for ESPN as a producer, but for a greater purpose." Fascinating to me. And so my interest starts to pique, could that be where the Lord is taking me? To utilize 17 years, really 20 years of production experience and broadcasting experience to work for Him in ministry somehow. It's been such an honor to be a part of Sports Spectrum, sports and faith intersecting, but I wasn't actively seeking out Sports Spectrum. The Lord orchestrated it and an opportunity to connect with the president of Sports Spectrum and next thing you know, I'm taking that leap of faith and walking away, it was not easy though.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Tell us what's happening there.
Jason Romano: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: It's impressive.
Jason Romano: Yeah, so this is the intersection of sports and faith. Sports Spectrum's actually been around since 1985. A long time, with the sole goal to bring the name of Jesus into the sports conversation. That's what they've wanted to do for years. And I remember Sports Spectrum when I was younger, I got to meet some of the people who were behind Sports Spectrum maybe 10 years ago and just was kind of interested. And maybe God was planting seeds then who knows, but was kind of interested that this existed. But then when I was approached about coming and working for them and really what they were doing at that time, new ownership had taken over Sports Spectrum in 2016.
And they came to me and said, "We'd like to rebuild Sports Spectrum back up, but with an eye on the future, on digital and media. And what do you think of something like that?" And I felt like God was saying, "This is the door I was telling you to wait on." And yeah, now we're a podcast network and I'm really fascinated by the podcast world and what we built at Sports Spectrum. The magazine has been a staple for 35 years and still is going strong. We're telling stories through our website and online articles. It's just blast.
Dr. Tim Clinton: What a gift to young athletes, to everybody seriously, kids growing up. There's such an affection for sports and performance, you know that?
Jason Romano: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: And they watch people on Saturday and Sunday and think, man, I just want to get there. And the prayer is as a dad, you want somebody up there who you think emulates Christ. I've learned through the years that when God has someone doing something really significant, there's usually a little bit of a backstory that wires us all together. And if you begin to follow that narrative through, you can really see his hand at work. I want to go back because the heart of what we want to talk today is about something I've got in my hands.
Jason Romano: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: It's a book you wrote called Live to Forgive: Moving Forward When Those We Love Hurt Us. It actually opens up with a fascinating story. You grew up... By the way, it's a story about your dad.
Jason Romano: Yes.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Who was an alcoholic. So you're an ACOA.
Jason Romano: Mm-hmm. That's right. Adult children of alcoholic.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Yes, you are. And as an ACOA, you go back and here's the sports piece that opens up the beginning of the book and it kind of wires you together and things that wire together fire together and things that fire together wire together if you know what I mean.
Jason Romano: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Jason, take us to the scene. I think you were so excited as a boy. So your dad was taking you, and I think your siblings.
Jason Romano: My brothers, yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Going to a Giants, Eagles game or something.
Jason Romano: That's exactly right. Yep.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Let's go back there.
Jason Romano: So that's the first chapter in the book, first story you'll read in chapter one. And it's interesting that that's what led the book, because that was my first memory of being scared of my dad and a little worried that something wasn't right. And I was nine, 10 years old. People would assume this being at ESPN for many years, I love sports. That's all I cared about as a kid. So when your dad tells you, we're going to your first ever NFL game, you're excited. Now I'm not a Giants fan of an Eagles fan, but I am a football fan and I am a sports fan. So this was a big deal to go to a game in person. So we were in Albany, New York, we drove all the way down to Philadelphia, about three or four hour drive. And we're at Veterans Stadium, the old Veterans Stadium. And you go in there and you walk through the gates and you see a sea of green, a hundred yard football field. And you're just so excited as a kid. This is the greatest thing you've ever-
Dr. Tim Clinton: I remember the first time I ever went to a ballpark as a boy.
Jason Romano: Greatest thing ever-
Dr. Tim Clinton: With my dad.
Jason Romano: And so you go in there and that's the last good memory I had from that day. Once they started playing in the kickoff happens, my dad who was drinking at that time, certainly in the stage of life that he was in probably got two or three or four beers in him. I'm guessing before the game even started. It didn't take long before my dad who, when he drank, he was very violent, not violent, volatile I should say. Violent was not the right word. He was verbally violent if that's even the right way to describe it. But that's what he was. He became a different person. It was a Jekyll and Hyde situation, for sure. And suddenly the Giants are not doing so well and Eagles fans see that he's a Giants fan and they're yelling at each other and saying words that we'll never hopefully say on this show.
Jason Romano: But it wasn't great for a nine or a 10 year old boy to see. But then it got worse because after the game we're driving home and my dad had been pretty wasted by that point. And this is 1984 and it's not right today, and it certainly wasn't right then, but I don't know why then it might've been more acceptable to just drink and drive, but he drove us home four hours.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Yeah, I remember reading this scene.
Jason Romano: Fully intoxicated and weaving in and out of traffic and lots of horns and my step-mom was in the car and screaming at him to stop driving like a maniac. And I'm in the back seat, just scared. I'm scared. And my brothers are younger, but I'm guessing they were scared too. And that was the first time I ever remember in my life being scared and knowing something wasn't right with dad. Before that I was young and naive and I didn't recognize it. But that day, which was supposed to be a really great day, turned out not to be one unfortunately.
And that memory, it's funny that you bring that up because I hadn't thought about that game in probably 25 years until we started putting this book together and I remembered the game and I called my dad who I've reconciled with now, I called my brothers. I said, "Do you guys remember this game?" And they all had the same memory, they do. Even my dad, and it wasn't a great memory for him, but they all remembered it, but it was there. It was this box in the attic that I had stored away. And when I took it back out, I'm like, oh my gosh, I hadn't dealt with this before. And so I had to kind of get it out there.
Dr. Tim Clinton: It affects us.
Jason Romano: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: It infects us. We're probably scratching a raw nerve here for some people who are listening. Certainly as you go back and reflect on this, I know childhood storms are a part of life-
Jason Romano: Yeah, of course.
Dr. Tim Clinton: For a lot of people. And inside those storms, they're difficult to navigate. There's a guy named Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist who talks about childhood trauma, in it he says, he's changed his thinking from what's wrong with that kid, to what happened to that child? That's a mindset shift.
Jason Romano: Big time. Yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Yeah. Take us a little bit more into that and what began happening with you?
Jason Romano: As I got older into my teen years, I started putting up my own walls, my own barriers with my dad. And I tried to allow him back into my life. I tried to have a friendship with him, a relationship because he was around. He's not the one that abandoned us and took off and was gone for years. That's not my dad. My dad tried to be around.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Wow.
Jason Romano: But the alcohol consumed him to the point where he just couldn't function as a normal person. And he couldn't love his kids the way we were supposed to be loved because he chose the alcohol over his two wives that he had my mom and then my step-mom and then me and my brothers. And I understand it now, the addiction cycle and what happened to him. But there's still a part of me that remembers that he made that choice at some point somewhere.
And so, it was a choice that he had to live with. And I had to build those barriers up and allow myself, especially as I got older into my twenties, certainly into my thirties. And when I became a dad, to not let what happened to him in our relationship effect the way I was going to take the rest of my life. So I would put walls up. And like I'd say before, I would throw these memories and these things that were from the past into boxes and just storm away in an attic and never look at them again. But you know that those things in the attic are things you need to eventually pull out and figure out what's in there. They don't disappear. And that was really the process of writing this book-
Dr. Tim Clinton: Exactly.
Jason Romano: Was pulling those boxes out of the attic.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Yeah, yeah that's it.
Jason Romano: And revisiting them.
Dr. Tim Clinton: The healing journey.
Jason Romano: Yes.
Dr. Tim Clinton: To bring hope and healing to people that you can break through these things.
Jason Romano: That's right.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Maybe yours and your brother's interest in sports really reflected a craving for connection and intimacy with our father. Maybe it drove you in a different direction, maybe toward it a little bit more because there was something that you were starved for. A lot of people call it father thirst or father hunger. You know that? What are your thoughts on that?
Jason Romano: That sounds right. I mean, it's funny because there were moments where I would have rather had nothing to do with my dad, but yet you still want that approval from your father. You want that dad figure-
Dr. Tim Clinton: Of course.
Jason Romano: In your life.
Dr. Tim Clinton: He's your dad.
Jason Romano: And when it comes to sports, that's the one thing that we connected with. I told people before and I wrote it in the book. The very thing that should have brought us together, tore us apart, which is sports, because that was when my dad was at his worst. When we would watch sporting events on TV, when we would go to sporting events, the story I just shared in Philadelphia, when we would play sports as kids. I mean, I remember my dad showed up to one of my high school basketball games and it was like the movie Hoosiers. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie Hoosiers-
Dr. Tim Clinton: Oh yeah, one of my favorites.
Jason Romano: And the drunken dad shows up on the court and the kids just like, "Oh my gosh." He's so embarrassed. That was me. That was my brothers. And so we've had those experiences, but at the same time, you're like, I just want him to be sober and enjoy this with me because we both love sports so much.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Because there's a real gift in sports.
Jason Romano: There is, there's so many lessons in sports, people from all walks coming together for a common cause. I mean still to this day, now that we're reconciled, it's still the one thing we talk about all the time is sports. And I'm glad about that, but I understand that sports can't be my God. And for so many years it was.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Terrible God.
Jason Romano: And I wanted my dad to be a part of that religion with me. And he was off somewhere else. And that really put a void in all of us.
Dr. Tim Clinton: The danger here is what we call multi-generational flow or transmission. It's the, "You're just like your father, you're going to be just like him."
Jason Romano: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Clinton: And somehow putting a clog in the wheel and saying, "Not in my house." [
Jason Romano: Well, I'll tell you with my daughter when she was born, and I even spoke at my church on a Father's Day message on seeing God as father in the prodigal son story that Jesus tells. We talk about the lost son and we talk about the older son a lot, but we don't look at it often from the standpoint of the father in the prodigal son story. And for me, I didn't have that father waiting with open arms for me when I would run back to him if I veered off because my dad was off somewhere else. So I had a terrible example of who God was as father, because I didn't have that father. And I know when my daughter was born, two things happened. Number one, I suddenly started to see God as father, how He loves us unconditionally-
Dr. Tim Clinton: Beautiful.
Jason Romano: In the same way that I cared so much about my daughter. And it was such an awesome, sweet thing to experience. But the other thing was, I didn't know how to be a dad to my daughter other than to do what my dad didn't do for us. And number one was drink. I haven't drank since high school because of my dad. I just made a choice and I still don't to this day because I saw the destruction that came from it. But my daughter, I just needed to spend time with her, have her know that I was there for her, have her know that no matter what she did, I was going to love her. It wasn't conditional. It wasn't based on performance. It was just her. I didn't have that with my dad, but I saw God as father through that. And now I said, "Oh, I get it. Now. That's how He loves us." And I needed my daughter to experience something that I didn't.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Dr. Dobson for so many years, who by the way, also has a deep love for sports and athletics said, "Often we view God through the eyes of our father." And we got to be so careful-
Jason Romano: Oh my gosh.
Dr. Tim Clinton: [And that's why I think Paul wrote, "Dads, don't exasperate your children. Don't provoke them to wrath, but bring them up rather in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." You're listening to Family Talk, a division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Dr. Tim Clinton, your host, our special guest today, Jason Romano. He is formerly with ESPN, he's done everything at ESPN, everything. Now with Sports Spectrum, he is a podcast leader there and a strong voice, a champion for faith in sports, in athletics. And I'm telling you what, this guy has a Rolodex that you wouldn't believe.
Jason, it's just, it's joyful. And it makes me happy to think about that kind of stuff. But let's go a step further here. The book Live to Forgive is really not about that story, as much as it is about the healing side and that you can, and you need to move through this. You can't swallow that poison because it'll kill you.
Jason Romano: That's right.
Dr. Tim Clinton: It will. Jason you talk about, and I love this four-step plan. You start with feeling the pain. "You can't heal what you don't feel" is an old AA slogan. You got it right here. Take us in there.
Jason Romano: Yeah, feeling the pain, that it's transforming the wound, it's forgiving the abuser and it's evaluating the trauma. It's all of those four things. And the pain is the first part of this whole thing to feel it and to acknowledge that it's there, we try to suppress, we try to hide it. We try to mask it.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Yeah, or pretend it doesn't hurt.
Jason Romano: Pretend it doesn't hurt, right. "Oh, I'm fine."
Dr. Tim Clinton: Doesn't matter.
Jason Romano: Even though you see me limping-
Dr. Tim Clinton: No big deal.
Jason Romano: Like really bad, I'm completely fine.
Dr. Tim Clinton: He's a sicko.
Jason Romano: We're good.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Doesn't matter, yeah.
Jason Romano: Right. And I think we need to feel that pain acknowledge that it exists before we can even enter into the true healing process and evaluating that trauma is the next one. And just going to go into what is that, that's there. There's pain, what is it? Transforming the wound is the key. That's really where Christ comes in and transforms us. And then we start to take that wound and understand that there's healing potential in it. And then it's the actual process forgiving the abuser. The hardest part of all of course is doing that. But remembering that it's not about the abuser when you're forgiving them, it's about yourself. Because you're the one, like you said, when you drink it, that poison, you're expecting the other person to die. When you hold that pain in and hold them accountable. And it's like, no, that's not kind of how Jesus wants us-
Dr. Tim Clinton: I feel like if I don't forgive, I'm punishing them.
Jason Romano: That's correct.
Dr. Tim Clinton: But we're not.
Jason Romano: No, it's the complete opposite. We're actually punishing ourselves.
Dr. Tim Clinton: You know what I always thought was fascinating about forgiveness too, Jason is forgiveness only takes one person.
Jason Romano: That's correct. Right.
Dr. Tim Clinton: And it's always my responsibility
Jason Romano: Every single time. And Jesus says we are to forgive every single time that we are wronged. That's hard, but that's truth. That's in the Scriptures. Just read Matthew 18. Jesus commands us to forgive every time. Why? Because he forgives us every single time we ask Him. And when we don't, and I know it's hard because some of us have been really, really hurt. But when we don't, we're basically putting a hand up and saying to God, "No, I got this figured out." And that's dangerous. That's a dangerous place to be.
Dr. Tim Clinton: What about your mom in this story?
Jason Romano: My mom is the hero in this story. She was our rock. She was the one that stabilized the household, the Romano household as kids. She allowed us to honestly have a fairly normal childhood considering that my dad and this whole thing was looming. We went to school, played sports, had a lot of friends, did stupid things like every kid does. And she stabilized us and allowed us to really dream and to go after that dream. And for me, even though I didn't have Christ at the center when we were younger, she protected us. That's the best way to put it and protected us from our dad, protected us from as much as she could from all of what could come from that and allowed us to just be normal kids. I'm so glad for that. And so thankful for that, because there's an aspect of my childhood that I actually have good memories of because of her.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Go mom.
Jason Romano: And you need some of those, if it's all bad memories, we're-
Dr. Tim Clinton: We're in trouble.
Jason Romano: That's not good. We're in trouble. So thanks to mom. She's the hero.
Dr. Tim Clinton: You mentioned dad. And what about dad? How'd the story end up?
Jason Romano: The story, it's a long, long story that took 40 years in the making, but I'll give you the Cliff Notes ending. My dad in 2013, tried to end his life, unsuccessfully. But strangely enough, when he ended up in the psych ward of the hospital in Albany, New York, that was the last time he's had a drink in eight years now.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Wow.
Jason Romano: And he's sober. And the one thing that if people are listening, they could pray for, is pray for his soul because he's not a follower of Christ yet. I wish that I could tell this story and say, "My dad accepted Christ and everything changed." It hasn't happened yet. It's still a miracle. And I think he knows that. And he sees his three sons, all walking with Christ and seeing that God obviously is real and has done something, but he's still kind of hanging on.
Maybe there's some shame in that. I don't know what it is, but he's sober. And honestly, for many years, Tim, that was my prayer was for my dad to get sober. I never prayed for my dad to find Christ. Even though I was Christian for many years, I just prayed for him to get sober. And now he's sober. So God answered that prayer, but we still got a little ways to go. But that's continuously what I pray about. And we are reconciled, which is, again-
Dr. Tim Clinton: That's a big deal.
Jason Romano: This is a whole nother podcast, but-
Dr. Tim Clinton: That's a whole nother story.
Jason Romano: Forgiveness and reconciliation are two different things.
Dr. Tim Clinton: They are.
Jason Romano: But we're reconciled. And we have a relationship. It's not the greatest, but it's certainly not where it was.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Well, God, we pray that you would bring Jason's dad to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. God do that in the strong name of Jesus, amen.
Jason Romano: Amen.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Jason, let's close this story this way. There may be some mom, dads out there listening right now and their kids are all right in the middle of that sports world. They would love to learn more about Sports Spectrum and this ministry and your heart. How do they do that? What can we do?
Jason Romano: There's a couple things. I think if you have kids who play sports, support them in that, but remember don't let sports become-
Dr. Tim Clinton: God.
Jason Romano: The center of their life. Let God be the center of your life. And sports can overflow from that. Don't let sports become God, that's correct. And Sports Spectrum, what we try to do is show you that sports can have a place, but Jesus is where we all need to be pointing towards. And that's what we do. We bring Jesus into the sports conversation. They can go to our website, SportsSpectrum.com to learn about all the ministry, I call it ministry resources. They're really just, it's just a media company. We write stories and have podcasts and magazines just like other media. But I look at it and it is, it's ministry and its resources. And it's all free for the most part, other than our magazine, that people can be a part of. And yeah, listen, if you love sports and you love Jesus, check out Sports Spectrum. That's my plug.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Jason Romano, his book Live to Forgive: Moving Forward When Those We Love Hurt Us. What a great story. Had noticed Darryl Strawberry wrote the forward to this.
Jason Romano: Yeah, that's a whole nother story. He's my sports hero and his name is on the same book as mine.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Darryl just wrote the forward to my new book called Take it Back.
Jason Romano: Is that right?
Dr. Tim Clinton: Yeah. He's a good friend.
Jason Romano: Oh, that's great.
Dr. Tim Clinton: Jason, on behalf of Dr. Dobson, his wife, Shirley, their family, the entire Family Talk team. We really salute you, appreciate the good work God's doing in and through you. Thank you for joining us.
Jason Romano: It's an honor to be here. Thanks for having me.
Roger Marsh: Jason is right. Unforgiveness doesn't necessarily hurt the person who wronged us, ultimately it causes us much more pain and grief than it does anyone else. In Matthew chapter 18, the apostle Peter asked Jesus, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me?" To Peter's surprise Jesus answered with a parable about a man who had been forgiven much, but refused to forgive even a little when he himself was wronged. It's a good story for us to remember.
Those of us who are in Christ and have been forgiven of all of our sins are called to forgive those around us without reservation. As Dr. Dobson's good friend, the late Dr. Arch Hart used to say, "Forgiveness is giving up my right to hurt you for hurting me." Now, if you want to learn more about Jason Romano and Sports Spectrum, just go to the broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org/broadcast.
Jason is the host of the Sports Spectrum podcast, which features inspiring stories at the intersection of faith and sports. The podcast, Sports Spectrum Magazine, and their online videos and articles are appropriate for all ages by the way. Your sports loving son or daughter will enjoy the stories about their favorite athletes and will be continually pointed back to Christ in the process. Again, you can find links to all of those resources and more on our broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org/broadcast.
Or if you'd like, you can give us a call. We're happy to answer all of your questions when you call us at (877) 732-6825. Thanks so much for joining us for Family Talk today. I'm Roger Marsh. And from all of us here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, we hope you have a blessed weekend. Hopefully you can get out and get some recreation in, maybe even catch a game with your family. God bless you.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.