Roger Marsh: Abortion was made legal in the United States nearly 50 years ago. And since that time, over 60 million innocent babies have been murdered. Many don't realize that those lives were and continue to be formed by the very hands of God. As Christians, we must not only celebrate God's gift of life, but avidly defend it, as well.
Today here on Family Talk, we are concluding an interview between Dr. James Dobson and the pro-life doc, as he's known, Dr. William Lile. Dr. Lile is a board certified obstetrician and gynecologist who actively defends pre-born lives through his own private practice. Dr. Lile also previously chaired Sacred Heart Hospital's OB/GYN department, and also taught in many residency programs, as well.
On yesterday's broadcast, Dr. Lile shared his pro-life passion and how he informs the public of the horrors of abortion. In just a moment, he'll continue his compelling message by sharing personal and hope-filled testimonies. You'll also be encouraged by his faithfulness to God in the midst of the fierce battle against abortion.
As we begin, Dr. Lile identifies the biblical protections for the unborn, which are rooted in Old Testament laws. Let's listen in now.
Dr. Lile: Exodus 21 specifically is talking about two men are fighting and it says two men strive, and accidentally they bump into a woman who is pregnant. And well, what is the penalty going to be? Well, it depends on what the outcome is to the baby. If the baby is born preterm and the baby does well, then Exodus 21 tells us that there would be a fine that would be ascribed to the men that were fighting. And that would be determined by the high priest and by the father of the baby.
However, if it's accidental and the baby dies, then it was life for life. So if somebody's swinging an ax handle and it flies off and it kills somebody, the penalty was not the death penalty, it was an accident, he'd go to a sanctuary city and there would be a fine. But these are two men who are fighting, who accidentally hit a pregnant woman and she loses her baby. The penalty was the death penalty, even though it was accidental. So does God have a special love and protection for the unborn? I think that illustrates it right there.
Dr. Dobson: Yeah, there's no doubt about it. When you were first in my office, I pointed to the window, where, up on a hill, our home sits. It's with a lot of other homes; there's a development. And it's not elaborate, but it's nice. And on the way from there to here, about a 10 minute trip, I have to drive past a Planned Parenthood, which, of all places, is sitting right there for all of us to grieve over, frankly.
Dr. Lile: Sure.
Dr. Dobson: And I do, as I pass. And this morning when I came by, there had to have been 20 cars sitting out there. And I just, as I often do, I just visualized how many women are in there. They're probably most of them, very young.
Dr. Lile: Yes.
Dr. Dobson: And they're making a mistake that they will, I think, most of them, regret for the rest of their lives. Not all of them, but most of them will. And there are consequences, both physical and emotional for submitting to an abortion. And I guess especially the late trimesters, but the early ones, too. There are consequences, and I would ask you about that.
But it just breaks my heart to see that. I just wish that I could just have a few minutes with those young ladies and talk about ... Better yet, I would like you to be able to talk to them, with your experience and the illustrations that you give. Are you able, sometimes, will they allow you, sometimes, to say, "Are you sure this is what you want to do?"
Dr. Lile: We have a great group of counselors that actually will meet every Friday at the abortion clinic in our town. And that's specifically what they will try to convey. They want them to know, not only are they, as a mom, loved; the people that are standing out there love them. Jesus came, gave His life and died on the cross for them because He loved them. Jesus died for whosoever. Jesus even died for the abortionist that's inside that clinic getting ready to perform the abortions. And they'll let them know and say, "Can we at least show you your baby before you-"
Dr. Dobson: You have ultrasound equipment, don't you?
Dr. Lile: We do. In our office, we have ... Actually, we have one of the ultrasound machines at our pregnancy resource center called Safe Harbor, which was provided through Focus on the Family, which is about five blocks away from our office. They are open all the time for the moms to come in and be able to get an ultrasound and be able to look at the life on the inside. But on Fridays, if one of our counselors meets a lady who is getting ready to go in for an abortion, they'll call us and we'll say, "Absolutely. Bring her over to the office." We want them to understand what the life is within their womb. We want them to visualize it. We'll bring them in, we'll let them see the baby on the inside. We can even let them hear the baby's heart beating, just going ... We'll even play the old Roberta Flack song (singing) ... just to let them realize that there is their baby on the inside. It's not just four drops of urine on a pregnancy test.
My mom has been involved in a ministry called Life Keepers, and they get together on a regular basis and they will actually sew little baby burp cloths and blankets and towels that are inscribed with them and embroidered, where it says, "I'm fearfully and wonderfully made." It's just one token that a pregnancy resource center can give to a young lady to say, "You know what? There's a life that's inside." Some moms will say, "I'm just not ready to be a mom." You already are a mom. Reproduction has already happened. The baby is alive, the baby is within your womb. It's just a matter of time. So we want them to see that life within their womb. We want them hear that heartbeat. We want to give them something that, as long as they give that baby enough time to develop on the inside, they'll be able to use.
With the moms that have come into our office that have been abortion-minded and have then seen their tiny baby on the inside and then make that decision for life, lot of times they become my patients. Sometimes they already have their own physician. But it's always amazing to me that when I do get the privilege and honor of delivering those babies and I see the mom back in my office six weeks later, you can't help but discuss with the mom and say, "Can you look back and think where we were eight months ago? Can you remember that decision you were trying to make? Can you look at your baby now and wonder what your life would be like without that baby in your life at that point?"
So, not a single mom has looked at her baby and said, "Boy, I wish I had gone ahead and had that pregnancy terminated." Every single mom is like, "I can't believe I came that close to taking the life of this precious baby that's in front of me right now."
Dr. Dobson: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, you see drama every day, don't you?
Dr. Lile: We do.
Dr. Dobson: Now, how can people get in touch with you? Because you do speak. I don't know how you have time to do it with all the pressures that are on an OB/GYN clinic.
Dr. Lile: We have a busy practice, but I have a passion. And my wife, and my daughters, Sydney and Emily, understand that passion, and they understand how we try to have that balance between traveling and trying to show the life of the child within.
Dr. Dobson: Then how can they find you?
Dr. Lile: Easiest way is through my website, which is prolifedoc, D-O-C, prolifedoc.org. And there's an email link. There are videos that are linked there. There are videos of me doing demonstrations to different groups, and there are also demonstrations on there that can be linked to foreseeing: how is a first trimester abortion done? How is the second trimester abortion done? How is a partial birth abortion done? My goal is to show the personality and the personhood of the unborn within the womb, and then use the tools of abortion to demonstrate the brutality, and to actually let people visualize what is really going on within the womb.
Dr. Dobson: Are you encouraged by what's happening in the Western culture, American culture, particularly with regard to revering the unborn child? Is that changing? And my impression is that it has changed, but how?
Dr. Lile: I think that there is an active movement going on which is trying to develop a wedge between the people of America and God. It does not matter whether it is abortion, whether it is drug abuse, whether it is sexual abuse or whether it is pornography. All of these are driving people away from God.
Where I do have great hope is in the younger generation; in the kids that I speak to that are 13 to 20 years of age, they learn differently than we learned. They don't usually learn by reading books like we did. They are visual learners. The world, to them, is on their smartphone, it's on their laptops, it's on their tablets. When they see the images that we show of surgeries on the unborn, when they see the development of the baby on the inside ...
We actually will have something called twin-twin transfusion syndrome, where you have two twins that are sharing a placenta. If one twin is taking a majority of the nutrition away from the other twin, that lesser twin can actually die. We now have surgeons that can go in and can look at that placenta, look at the blood vessels which are shared between that one placenta; they can take a laser and they can destroy those blood vessels, almost like they're saying, "Okay, twins, you're going to divide the room in half. You're going to play on your side, you're going to play on your side." Well, when we do that, both babies do well. And with twin-twin transfusion syndrome and us doing surgeries on these babies, we get two healthy babies. The kids realize that. They're amazed at seeing the development of the baby. But the fact that we can use something like a laser to perform surgery to save the lives on the unborn, they say, "Well, what if mom didn't want those babies? I mean, those babies are too far along to abort, aren't they?" It's like, "No. If mom were to choose, she could take those lives of the unborn," which does not make sense to the youth who are seeing and understanding the visuals of the life within the womb. And to them, it overtly seems wrong. They don't have to have a religious objective; it just seems wrong to them.
Dr. Dobson: Do you ever find yourself lying in bed at night after a full day of the work that you do, and your eyes are still open and you're thinking and probably saying to God, "I can't believe that I have the privilege of being present at the dawn of a human being's life; that you allow me to be here to make a difference and to preserve some of those lives." I mean, what a privilege.
Dr. Lile: It's an honor every time. And you know, I've delivered over 3,000 babies, now, so far in my career. And every delivery is special. And when you realize that you're the first person that anybody has ever laid eyes on when they come into this world, it's an honor and it's a privilege. But then I also think of all the thousands of babies that I have delivered, but then I think about the 55 million babies whose lives have been taken here in the United States.
And I think we need to do something about that. Often, I'll have people ask, "Can we really win?" And I have to stop. And you know, you talk about looking up at the sky. It's gorgeous sky out here in Colorado. And when I look up at the sky and I wonder, "Can we win," I'm looking at the Milky Way, our galaxy. And I realize that there are 250 million stars in our galaxy. And you look at the God that we pray to and we serve is the one who, in one thought said, "And God created the heavens and the earth."
So, we have the God who listens to our individual prayers, hears our prayers, that we can pray to and we can love and the same God created this amazing universe that we have. And we sit back and we wonder, "Can we win?" when we have that God on our side. Yeah, we can win this battle. There's no doubt about it. We just have to be faithful and we have to work and we have to strive. Because someday, for those of us that know Jesus, we're going to come before Jesus and we're going to look at this 70, 80 years that we spent here on earth. And what my goal is, is while I'm there on my knees just saying, "Thank you, thank you, thank you," what a blessing to have Jesus just reach his hand down, lift your chin up, look you in the eye, and just say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."
Dr. Dobson: Oh my.
Dr. Lile: And that's what all of our goal needs to be. So can we win? Yeah, no doubt about it. We can win.
Dr. Dobson: Must we win? I mean, we have to.
Dr. Lile: Yeah. You know? And I do not want-
Dr. Dobson: Whether we win or not, that's God's business.
Dr. Lile: Correct.
Dr. Dobson: Our job is to do everything we can to make sure we do preserve those lives.
Dr. Lile: You know, our duty is to be faithful and people reject that message. One of the things I'll do when I counsel people who work at a pregnancy resource center, a lot of times they get discouraged because they pour their hearts out. They let them know about this amazing gift of life, and yet, even though they might see their own baby or their grandchild, if they get brought in by their mom, they'll go and still make that decision to abort the baby the next day. And the pregnancy resource center counselors will say, "I can't believe I didn't do enough." You know? "Why couldn't I have done more?" And it's like, "Your duty is to be faithful." I said, "If Jesus Christ was teaching a class in your church on how to share the gospel, would you take it?"
"Absolutely. I would take that class." Could anybody share the gospel better than our Lord and savior Jesus? No. Did Judas hear all of the messages of Jesus? Did he see all the miracles of Jesus? Did he have the most obvious presentation of the gospel possible? Yes. Did he still reject Jesus? Yes. Did Jesus not do a good enough job sharing the gospel in the presence of Judas? No. Judas made his own choice. He made the wrong choice, and he did not want to serve our Lord, so we can't get discouraged. Our duty is to be faithful. Results are God's.
Dr. Dobson: Yeah. You mentioned astronomy. I have a hobby of studying astronomy. I was about 9 or 10 years of age when I read my first article about what's up there, and I was so awestruck even as a child, at the vast reaches of space. And I couldn't understand it all then, but I have studied it since then. It's just a hobby, just something that I care about. And it takes my breath away to see what God has created and what He has done, how grand He is. There is no problem that he can't handle. It strengthens my faith. And in fact, David said, "The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth his handiwork."
Dr. Lile: Yes.
Dr. Dobson: And when you think that it is He who is knitting those little babies together in the mother's womb, as David said in Psalm 139, it's He that's doing it. You dare not interfere with it.
Dr. Lile: Correct.
Dr. Dobson: That's His doing. That's His remarkable plan. The same one that flung those heavenly bodies into space and created all those galaxies is working on that individual like no other one who ever lived. And it should give us pause before we act so cavalierly to something so grand.
Dr. Lile: We will feel that we have done grand things because of the minor surgeries that we're performing on the babies within the womb. We put a drain in the baby's bladder; we give the baby a blood transfusion; we operate on their spine; we do laser surgery. But the true miracle is in the development of the baby; how two cells can get together and all of the genetic material and blueprints on something called cell differentiation.
Dr. Dobson: It's all there.
Dr. Lile: How do two cells divide, and one cell says to itself, "You know what? All the divisions that I'm going to do from here on are going to develop the vascular system. I'm going to become the heart and all of the blood vessels." And another cell will say, "Well, you know what? I'm going to become the neurologic system. I'm going to be the central nervous system and the brain." And another one says, "Well, I'm going to develop the skeletal system." We still do not have a clue, as far as cell differentiation, how we can go from one cell to 2 to 4 to 8, 16, 32 to 60 trillion cells. It's impressive that we can understand the structures, but how these structures actually follow the blueprint that was designed by God; when you see the design and you see the involvement, there has to be a designer. There's no way it just happened by chance.
And we live in a world of entropy. If you'd take a jar that's halfway filled with salt and halfway filled with pepper and you shake it forever, you will never ever have a layer of salt and a layer of pepper. We just move towards confusion. The only way that you can have what we see in this gift of life is because there was a designer, there was a thought process. There was a creator that put this development and this plan to what we all are today as humans.
Dr. Dobson: Ah, let me turn a corner.
Dr. Lile: Sure.
Dr. Dobson: I could talk to you, it feels like endlessly, because I find what you have to say not only so interesting, but inspirational. There is divine wisdom in what you're saying, and the Lord laid his hands on you and gave you this assignment and gave you the ability to articulate it in a way that all of us can understand. And I applaud you for that and applaud Him for that.
But let's turn a corner. You were talking about the fact that you, on one occasion, began teaching morality and sexually transmitted diseases and other things that young people need to know. Explain it.
Dr. Lile: For the past 10 years, we have taught a class in our church that we just call Godly Purity, where we believe that these kids can practice sexual purity; we haven't given up on them. But we will, at our church get the kids together. Sometimes from two or three different churches, they'll come together and we'll have a big event where we'll have them there for the whole night. And it's a lot of fun. We'll have a live Christian band going and we'll take them out. Maybe we'll have a bowling alley or a skating night. But our goal is to let them know what the biblical principles are, what God expects from them as far as their body's a temple of the Holy Ghost, and that their bodies are not their own, but their bodies are owned by the Holy Spirit; and that how they're supposed to treat them, and how guys are supposed to treat ladies and how women are supposed to respect their own bodies.
And we try to give them practical spiritual principles. But then I also will give them the principles from a medical standpoint, the consequences of sin, the consequences of deviating from God's plan. One of the examples is boundaries. Is fire good or bad? It depends. Fire in your grill that's cooking your hot dogs or making your s'mores is good. Fire outside of the boundaries of a fire pit can burn your house down. What's the difference? It's boundaries.
Is sex good or bad? Well, it depends. Where are the boundaries? Sex within the boundaries of marriage is wonderful. It is pure. It is a God-given gift. Sex outside of those boundaries is bad. So our goal is to let the kids know that yes, there are godly, biblical principles on your body and on your sexuality; that God has boundaries for sex. It's a gift, but there are boundaries. But with all sin there are consequences.
Do I feel that when we educate these kids as to the biblical and the medical principles, do I feel they can make the right decisions regarding their sexuality? Absolutely. We see it all the time. We have been to weddings where the kids have made these decisions when they were in high school and then as part of the wedding ceremony, the bride who has maintained her sexual purity will actually give her parents back the purity ring that she had placed on her finger when she was 13 or 14 years of age, and then she'll take the wedding ring from the husband who now has also been maintaining that sexual purity. They are entering into that marriage relationship, knowing that they cannot give each other some sort of a sexually transmitted disease. They have no psychological baggage. They have no prior relationships. They can have sex five times a day, 365 days a year, and they will not have to worry about some sort of a sexually transmitted infection. That's the way God designed it. And when kids are taught that, they can practice that.
I've been blessed with two amazing daughters, Sydney and Emily. And on a regular basis, we realize that there are two sets of parents out there raising the guys that my daughters will sometime marry. But there's two guys out there that someday are going to sweep my daughters off their feet.
Dr. Dobson: Yeah.
Dr. Lile: And I hope that they've been raised with the same respect, not only for women, but the same respect and a desire to serve our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Dr. Dobson: And you pray for it.
Dr. Lile: Absolutely. On a regular basis.
Dr. Dobson: Yeah.
Dr. Lile: To the same God that created our universe and created 50 billion galaxies out there. He's the same God that I serve and he's the same God that I ask for wisdom in raising my daughters.
Dr. Dobson: I've been talking to Dr. William Lile and what a pleasure to get acquainted with him. You and I have a mutual friend, Jay Snyder.
Dr. Lile: Yes, sir.
Dr. Dobson: Who brought you here, told me about you, came with you, flew with you, and is sitting at the table over here today. Hasn't said anything, but he brought us together. And I'm grateful that he did because I want to be your friend as long as you will allow me.
Dr. Lile: I'd be honored.
Dr. Dobson: God has his hands on you, and I do hope there'll be a lot of people who will call and ask you to come speak.
Dr. Lile: I'd be honored.
Dr. Dobson: Because we've all heard how articulate you are in explaining some of these complex issues and ideas. You love the Lord too, don't you?
Dr. Lile: Absolutely.
Dr. Dobson: Ah.
Dr. Lile: He is my Lord and savior.
Dr. Dobson: Yeah. Thanks for coming to be with us.
Dr. Lile: It's an honor.
Dr. Dobson: Please come back.
Dr. Lile: I'd be honored to. Thank you very much.
Dr. Dobson: All right.
Roger Marsh: Well, I hope this profound pro-life message has spoken to your heart today. The innocent life in a mother's womb was put there by God and deserves protection, and also our advocacy.
You can learn more about Dr. William Lile by going to our broadcast page here at drjamesdobson.org. From there, you can check out his website, which contains much of the content which was discussed on yesterday's broadcast as well as during the past half hour. Find all this at drjamesdobson.org, tap onto the broadcast page tab once you're there.
Well, this concludes our week of programs dedicated to the sanctity of human life. Join us again tomorrow to hear a classic presentation from the late Frank Pastore. He was an incredible baseball player with also an incredible testimony of God's goodness. You'll want to hear his enlightening story on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh. Hope you'll be with us then.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
Dr. Tim Clinton: This is Dr. Tim Clinton, Executive Director of the James Dobson Family Institute. Thanks for listening today. We hope you found this program helpful and encouraging. Please remember that our ministry is here to serve you and your family.
For more information about our programs and resources or to learn how you can support us, go to drjamesdobson.org. That's drjamesdobson.org, or call us toll free, 877-732-6825. I pray that God will bless you in 2020. And as we start the new year, we're so grateful for your partnership. We ask you to stand with us and to continue to defend the Christian values in an ever-changing culture. Thanks again for joining us. We hope you'll join us again on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.