Michele Bachmann: Welcome to this special edition of Family Talk. My name is Michele Bachmann, filling in for Dr. Dobson today. If you're a newer listener, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I served in the United States Congress. I also ran for President of the United States with the Republican Party in 2012, but today I'm very honored to serve as Dean at the Robertson School of Government, a Biblical Worldview University at Regent University in Virginia Beach, Virginia. It's both online and on campus. I'm very proud to serve as a member on the Board of Directors at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
If my voice sounds familiar to you, well, maybe it's because you heard me on Dr. Dobson's radio show recently, and today Dr. Dobson asked me to present to you on the issue of gender crisis that's going on in our country right now. So you might be saying to yourself, gender crisis, that seems crazy. How can a little boy or a little girl be confused about his or her God designed assignment to live life as their creator intended?
So look, if you have children, if you have grandchildren, you may have been seeing in our media lately or observed in our public schools that there seems to be a problem going on today with the issue of gender confusion. And so I've asked someone who is an expert on this issue who's been asked to speak multiple times across the state of Minnesota on this issue. He's a trained, practicing therapist. He's the co-owner of a Christian counseling clinic. He also happens to be my husband of 45 years and my partner in raising our five biological children and our 23 foster children. His name is Dr. Marcus Bachmann. And Marcus, I want to thank you for joining me this morning on Dr. Dobson's Radio show.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Oh, you're welcome. This is such a important message. I'm glad that we have the opportunity to help educate, encourage, and informed parents and grandparents why this is becoming like wildfire and how do we respond to it?
Michele Bachmann: Could you define just the issue of gender crisis, or what I've heard you say gender dysphoria?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Well, first of all, I think we need to understand the American Psychiatric Association. They started with Gender Identity Disorder as the label, and that was in the DSM from 1980 to 1994. And the truth is they called it then what it is, a mental disorder. Then in 2013, they dropped that term and that's what is known today as gender dysphoria. Now, the interesting thing about the relabeling and the decision that it is no longer a mental disorder, but it is a person who has distress. Let me repeat that. Distress over their gender. So a man who wants to become a woman and has distress over it, or a woman wanting to become a man and having an emotional reactor as distress, that's the label today that is considered the concern. The problem that which needs to be eliminated is the distress. Not so much that they are wanting to become the opposite sex, but the fact that it is the distress over it. That's a huge change.
Michele Bachmann: I would say that's a huge change. That's unbelievable. Because you have 5,000 years of recorded human history. So that's what we know. 5,000 years of recorded human history, and in all that time we never saw this issue of gender dysphoria until as recently as less than 60 years ago. In 1966, I did some research and a man named John Money who was originally from New Zealand, went to Harvard. He earned a PhD in psychology, and he had a theory in 1966 that maleness and femaleness is a learned behavior, not innate. Now, we asked our parents, our grandparents, our great-grandparents, going back, how many generations? Is it learned that you're male or female or were you just born that way? I think we know what the answer would be from them. Right, Marcus?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Absolutely. And along with that today, it's the popular term called gender fluidity. Now, that is a very interesting term because there's a cause and effect. It is no longer considered okay to be male or to be considered female. You cannot strongly identify yourself as being fully male. You're supposed to have a fluid approach, a fluid understanding of being both female and being male.
Michele Bachmann: Okay, so you mentioned two terms here, gender fluidity, gender dysphoria. Yes. So this theory that no one should think of themselves as you being born male or being born female, which is very strange to our ears. That's what you're calling fluidity? Right?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Exactly. And so if we confuse children, if we confuse adolescence and move this into the adult population, that we are to celebrate someone who is really confused about their identity, really desirous to change their identity of their sex characteristics. Whether that's with blockers, whether that's with hormone injections, or whether it is with the tragedy of having a sex change operation, of which I find it very interesting. The first, I believe it was the very first medical university that started sex change operations was Johns Hopkins at-
Michele Bachmann: In Baltimore.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Yes. They stopped doing sex change operations and Chris Hyde, who was the director of the facility said, and I quote him, "Even if doctors are careful to perform their procedures on appropriate patients, there are still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized." End quote. Now, I understand that Johns Hopkins is now back in the arena because you see the woke culture is pressured so many of these universities, medical facilities to consider doing sex change operations, but for years they shut down because of the facts. Let's remember if we follow the facts, versus the feelings, because feelings is exactly what is the backdrop of transgender gender dysphoria.
Michele Bachmann: Well, that is right, and I think that that's an important point. The fact is this is a lie, isn't it?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Of course it is.
Michele Bachmann: It's a lie. And in this John Money, he had what he called a success story. One child who was a little boy that he put through both the chemical castration and also the physical mutilation of this little boy's body. This is what he considered a success story, but this little boy who went through all of these changes didn't see it as a success story. He rejected this surgery. He tried to return his body to being a boy, and it was so tragic that when he became an adult in his thirties, he committed suicide. So the one case that this PhD John Money, this psychologist considered his success story was actually a tragic failure, and that's what all of the research was based on, and he was at Johns Hopkins. Can you talk to us a little bit about this lie, this idea of feelings supplant our biological reality?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Whether it is the hormone injections, or the blockers or the tragedy of having sex change operations, they are now finding that these people have emotional mental health issues that are certainly not a success story. You see, Michele, the truth is parents are given a lie about their son or daughter who is confused and really desirous to have sex change procedures. The lie is that, that child, that adolescent, if not given these procedures will be suicidal, may become a person of suicide, or that this is the only way, the only way that child will ever become a normal, healthy individual. Well, if I were a parent and I were not certain of all these issues and I were told that my son or daughter may commit suicide, or this is the only way that they can get help, well, I can see why some parents would go along with and become proponents of this idea that their child needs to have this done.
Michele Bachmann: Because they love their child.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Of course.
Michele Bachmann: And they don't want their child to commit suicide, and some professional, whether it's someone at the child's school or someone that the school referred the parents to is saying to the parents, "You don't want to be responsible for pushing your child into suicide." I mean, what a position that these parents are being put in.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Again, there's no long-term studies, but we're seeing-
Michele Bachmann: That's an important point.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: ... They're finding out that there is a movement of thousands of individuals that are saying, "I did this. I was encouraged to do this. The message was given by my therapist, even my parents and certainly the doctors who performed these surgeries." And now we're saying, "I didn't end up with the right result. I can never breastfeed my child." There are certain things that can never come back physically, voice changes, and muscle development, and we are seeing today adults that are saying, "I am going to go after those that deceived me. I was a part of the lie and I have to pay for it at this point in time in my life."
Michele Bachmann: So children who have bought the lie, maybe if I change my body, I'll be happier, and then they find out not only am I not happier, I'm worse off than I was before. You're saying this is irreversible. These puberty blockers are irreversible. Surgery is irreversible.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Yes. And we're finding in the studies today that 70% of those that have gone as far as having the surgeries continue with severe significant mental health disorders, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation.
Michele Bachmann: So it isn't a good solution?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: 70%.
Michele Bachmann: 70%, I would say that is a wholesale disaster.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: It is.
Michele Bachmann: By any calculation, and that takes me back to what we said before. Now, this is being fanned and deflamed to be normalized. It's being pushed and distributed through our government. This is an idea, a really bad idea, a fairly recent idea. The old idea is as old as the serpent, the devil, and the garden of Eden, who lied to Adam and even said, "You can be as Gods, you can choose." Whether it's our United States government in the military, or with federal employees, or state employees or local employees having this pushed on them, or big corporations pushing this on their employees, or little children in daycares and elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, the university. This idea, this thinking, this way of thinking is being pushed on them, like you said, in a form of indoctrination, and so Marcus, can you teach kids a lie? Something as basic as you're a little boy, but maybe you're not a little boy. You're fluid.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Right.
Michele Bachmann: And maybe you should be a girl or if you're a little girl, you shouldn't just think you're a girl. You're fluid, and so therefore you're a little boy. Is it possible to actually teach a child to believe this lie?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Oh, absolutely. That's the formative years. That's the time when children are trying to understand life, their worldview. Who are they in all of this? And if they see that there is a certain population that is being celebrated, they jump on board. It's a fad in many ways. My concern is, this is a serious fad that I will call it for what it is, child abuse.
Michele Bachmann: I mean, this to me is unbelievable here in America, through the American schools, through the entertainment purveyors like Disney, and shows like Clifford, and even American national retail outlets now, are producing clothing for infants, and babies, and little children that pushes not only just the LGBT agenda, but the trans agenda. This lie that you choose. This isn't innate, that you're born boy or girl, but you get to choose this, and as a matter of fact, you'll be happier if you choose it. If you go through chemical castration, and if you go through physical mutilation, you might be happier.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: And just think, Michele, if a child, an adolescent, or high school student or college student says that they don't agree with this, there are consequences to that.
Michele Bachmann: Punishment.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Punishment. That child either will be told it's inappropriate or they're told, "You're no longer accepted in this school because that's considered bullying if you have a different opinion." It's gone bizarre.
Michele Bachmann: This is happening all across the United States and public schools in what are considered conservative states.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Yes.
Michele Bachmann: As well as liberal states through government, through government, public schools. Parents aren't being asked about this ahead of time-
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: No.
Michele Bachmann: ... If their children can learn this, they're not signing forms that say, I give my child permission to learn this. This is all of a sudden pervasive, this indoctrination. So it's a way of thinking that's false. It's an indoctrination. It's an ideology, if you will. It's a theology, so it's like a religion-
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Right.
Michele Bachmann: ... That's being pushed on our kids, and this is what absolutely galls me, Marcus. Why would adults take an entire generation of American kids who are captives in American public schools and in some private schools, why would adults do this to a child? This seems like one of the most cruel things I've ever heard of, intentionally mixing up the mind of a child, and you told our audience that this actually led to mental illness.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Yes. I think we need to be very mindful, especially to the Christian audience, Christian therapists in many states now are tied that they cannot even educate and counsel a child, an adolescent who's struggling. We could lose our license for even going along with someone who has a faith that opposes us. We can't even go along with them and help them.
Michele Bachmann: Wait a minute, now you're telling me if Christian parents have their child come home from school and the child says, "Hey, I'm, transitioning." Or what else is happening that the school won't tell the parents.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: True.
Michele Bachmann: They just go ahead and have the child go through puberty blockers and schedule them for a surgery for physical mutilation. So if the parents find out about this, they're horrified, and then they contact you or they contact some therapist. You're telling me that the therapist could be in trouble if they try to help the parent well or the child?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: See, I think it's even worse than that because yes, that's right, but it's also true if that child who has a faith backdrop and is saying to you, "I have difficulty. I'm attracted in this area. I'm confused about this area, and my value system says I need to work through this. I need some help." That therapist in many states now, this is not across every state in the United States, but many states are now forcing, a therapist can lose their license, if under the age of 18 a person needs help and you are assisting them in their value system to deal with working themselves out of this confusion.
Michele Bachmann: We know several states. One state being Washington state just passed a law. It's done. It's already law. That if a parent disagrees with what the school is teaching the child about gender dysphoria, gender confusion, gender identity, then the state of Washington has the legal right to remove the child from the parent's home.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: You know Michele, it's so unbelievable, but we need to wake up as believers and understand there's a responsibility for a parent and their own child to discover what's going on in their school system, what's going on in their sports associations, what's going on in their universities. Why would I be sending someone into this arena of lies that may affect their thinking and their faith? I just believe that as believers, we need to be responsible for what message and what protection we're giving for children and adolescents that I will say it again, are being abused.
Michele Bachmann: And our biology is written down to the cellular level that it doesn't matter if you go through puberty blockers, it doesn't matter if you go through physical mutilation. Every cell in your body screams out what your sex is, that you are male or that you are female. The book of Genesis says that, but actually science says that, that your feelings may tell you that you're a different sex, but your body, until you take your last breath, will always say that you are male, or that you are female. In fact, our DNA imprint is so strong even in the future, once we've gone to our great reward, an archeologist could exhume our bones and discover our maleness, or our femaleness in our bones, so this is something that's immutable.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: There's still a body that says, "I am what has been ordained by God to be." When we think about vulnerability, children are identified as being vulnerable and why are we sexualizing them at an age that they should not be sexualized? As a matter of fact, it has been and still is, the responsibility of parents, not educators, not the culture, and they have a right to affirm their children as being male or female.
Michele Bachmann: Marcus, can you tell the listeners of the show today if their child came home, or their grandchild came home, and said that they had gender confusion, what would you tell parents and grandparents to do today?
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: I love that question because it gives the opportunity for moms, and dads, and grandparents to be a mentor and to be involved in their child's life so that they can communicate the God-given message of affirmation. You talk about celebration. I think the celebration of our son being a male, a celebration of our daughter being female, and if a kid understands who they are in their identity, particularly the true identity of who we are in Christ, that will take them through any confusion that the culture has to offer.
If I have a person coming into my office that is concerned, confused, overwhelmed, I think we have to say, "Let's take away the onion skins. Let's take away the layer upon layer upon layer of how did you get here?" And I think there's a lot of reasons. Often we find that there is trauma. It could be sexual abuse, it could be a significant loss, it could be divorce that has really affected that person's life, and they're confused about who they are and where they're going.
That is my job as a responsible therapist, and then let me walk alongside. I say this over and over again. When they trust you and they're being heard and understood, then the unraveling can happen. To understand how do they get here? And with the plans that God has for them needs to be understood so that they can be given freedom in their life. There is no freedom in this transgender culture. It's confusion. It may feel good for a season to have others affirm you in this celebration of confusion, but the truth of the matter is, God's word is true. There is a better way. There is a way that is true that will set these people free.
I'll just say this in closing. I don't want to be just angry, or frustrated, or annoyed or we don't need to say yuck as an answer to all this. There's got to be hope. There's got to be an answer, and the freedom that I believe is so strongly found in our identity when one's true identity is really the change of life that can happen in these people, and we're seeing survivors. We're seeing success stories from those that have said, "This didn't work, but I found a real peace and new life in Christ."
Michele Bachmann: Well, Marcus, what a profound conversation we've had today on this issue of gender crisis. I can't thank you enough for being here.
Dr. Marcus Bachmann: Thank you.
Michele Bachmann: And listeners, please go to drjamesdobson.org for more options and more resources that Dr. James Dobson has prepared for you on this important issue. He has information on Bringing Up Boys, Bringing Up Girls on dealing with this issue of gender crisis. We are here for you. Contact us at drjamesdobson.org.
Roger Marsh: Wow. I hope you found today's program to be most informative. I know most of us know of someone who's been impacted by this gender crisis we face in our culture today. I pray that we as listeners and as a Christian community can stay strong as we lean into God through all of what has been laid before us. Biblical truth, that's where it's at.
You've been listening to Michele Bachmann on behalf of Dr. James Dobson with her husband, Dr. Marcus Bachmann today here on Family Talk. If you feel it in your heart to share this program with another parent or a loved one, maybe a young person who's struggling with gender confusion, just visit our website at drjamesdobson.org/familytalk.
Also, please know how much we appreciate hearing from you, and if you'd like to reach us with any questions, comments, prayer requests, or a financial contribution, all you have to do is pick up the phone and call 877-732-6825. That's 877-732-6825.
And now on behalf of Dr. James Dobson. I'm Roger Marsh. Thanks again for listening to Family Talk today. We appreciate you making us a part of your day, and be sure to join us again tomorrow for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.