Roger Marsh: When facing hardship and pain sometimes our natural responses include fear, worry, and anxiety. But as Christians we cannot become spiritually paralyzed. We must instead fiercely cling to God. His very presence will calm our hearts and help us ride out the roughest storms of life. Today here on Family Talk we are revisiting Dr. Dobson's heartfelt interview with Dave Butts, President of Harvest Prayer Ministries. And if you may recall this program being a part of Family Talk's 10 year anniversary CD collection. Well this broadcast warrants that honor because Dave has quite a powerful testimony. A few years back Dave Butts was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer, but despite the bleak outlook he chose not to be overwhelmed by his circumstances. In just a moment Dave will talk about the lessons God taught him during this difficult trial. He'll also encourage others who might be struggling with the hope that can only be found in Jesus Christ. Now this is an incredibly uplifting interview that really will touch your heart. So here now is Dr. James Dobson to further introduce his guest on this edition of Family Talk.
Dr. Dobson: I'm really excited for you to hear this program, especially folks out there who have been struggling physically or emotionally. You're going to be blessed by what you're going to hear today. We're going to focus on the power of prayer and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding. Of course, that's from Philippians 4:7. And our guest today has been through some very difficult times in the last year and he's learned some things about prayer and peace in this period of time that has, I'm sure, changed him and his relationship with the Lord. And you're going to see why.
His name is Dave Butts and he is a prayer warrior. He was diagnosed last year with stage four B Cell Mantle, it's a rare form of lymphoma and that's bad news whether you have heard of it or not. And he was not expected to rebound from this sickness, at least not as quickly as he has. But through the intervention of prayer and the overwhelming peace of God, he's in remission and is with us in the studio today. It was one year ago that you got this diagnosis.
Dave Butts: Absolutely, one year ago. And my goodness, what an amazing year it's been. We had no idea what God was going to do. No idea what the result was going to be, that I would be anywhere a year later.
Dr. Dobson: Well, I want to hear about that. Let me finish the introduction. Dave Butts is the Founder and President of Harvest Prayer Ministries. I believe you started that in the '90s, didn't you? So that's been-
Dave Butts: In 1993.
Dr. Dobson: '93. He also serves as the Chairman of the National Prayer Committee and of course the National Day of Prayer Task Force. He has authored five books and six devotionals, and one of them we're here to talk about today is new. It really represents his journey in the last year. It's called Prayer, Peace, and the Presence of God: A 30-Day Journey to Experience the Shalom of Jesus. And we're going to be talking about that. Dave, Shirley and I have been praying for you through this dark time. Describe for me this journey that you've been on. You got the diagnosis out of the blue, didn't you?
Dave Butts: It really did come as a surprise. We knew something was going on in the Fall of 2016. I was not feeling good and we couldn't figure out what it was. The doctor initially thought that I had some pneumonia and then they thought maybe it was some heart issues and they kept testing and different things. And they did some tests and it took a few weeks actually before it came back.
Dr. Dobson: What medical center were you at?
Dave Butts: Actually I had my own doctor at first and then Union Hospital in Terre Haute and then Community Hospital in Indianapolis and then MD Anderson in Houston and then back to Community Hospital in Indianapolis.
Dr. Dobson: Boy, you've been through a lot of them.
Dave Butts: And so many people who have medical issues know what that's like. You sometimes bounce around 'til you find where you need to be to get the care that you need.
Dr. Dobson: What was it like going into the hospital knowing something's wrong but not knowing what and then walking out with the words ringing in your ears that you may have a life threatening disorder and in fact did?
Dave Butts: Well, I have to back up some for this answer to make sense.
Dr. Dobson: Right.
Dave Butts: Otherwise it sounds like, "What in the world are you talking about Dave?" It was late spring of 2016. The Lord led me to begin to study scripturally of peace. For some reason I was just taken by that and I began just to study. And the more I studied, the more I began to teach, the more I began to teach, the more I sensed, "I need to write some things on this." And so I began to really immerse myself in the word of God on that issue of peace. And this was all through the fall of 2016. I'm not feeling very good, but I'm studying peace. And my wife was with me on this, we're really studying. We know that come January we're going to go away and write and that's often what we do and both of us do some writing. And I know you do the same thing, you always get away to write.
Dr. Dobson: I do, I do.
Dave Butts: And so, we'd been studying, just literally immersing ourselves in peace. At the same time we're doing that, something's going on physically. And so they did some tests and I'd had different heart issues, things they were checking. Nope, it wasn't that. They finally did these tests, but they said, "Now it'll be a while. You go ahead and go." Because I had to go out for some meetings with the National Prayer Committee in California. I had a good place to write while I was out there. And so, I jumped into writing and it was going, I had a first few days of this book, of the devotional going and then came the call. And the doctor said, "Dave, I'm sorry to tell you but you have stage four lymphoma and we think it's a rare form." At that time they didn't know for sure.
Kim and I, I have to tell you, we took two days to just stop and research this disease, see what we were dealing with. But I will tell you, even through that time we did not have fear. And you know me and I'm just Dave, there's nothing special here. What was happening though is because we had spent almost a year studying scripture regarding peace, there was a peace of God that was guarding our hearts. And all through this, I had six weeks in the hospital in and out and all sorts of nasty chemo, but there was never any fear. And what I would say to anyone is that's not because of Dave, it's because of Jesus and it's because of His word. And the fact is that when we focus on the gift of Jesus to us, "My peace I give to you," we can face anything in the peace of Christ.
Dr. Dobson: And now Dave that's a spiritually politically correct thing to say. Is that really, really true? That in the midst of the storm that very well could take your life, you had peace?
Dave Butts: Here's what's interesting is I was writing this book and I wanted people to believe that, but I will tell you this. And I do not believe for a minute that God ever gives anyone cancer, but God used this awful disease to give validity to this message. Because you see you're right it's a "politically" or "Christian-correct" answer. But I will tell you this, my wife would tell you this, we've never shed a single tear over cancer. We've shed a lot of tears over the love of Christian friends who came alongside us and loved us, but never ever a tear over cancer.
Here's what it is. It's a supernatural gift. When Jesus looks you in the eye and he said, like he did the disciples in gospel of John and he said, "My peace I give to you." It is not as the world gives. See the world's looking for just the absence of hostility, that's all they're looking for when it comes to peace. But the peace of Jesus ... it's interesting, he put his name in a sense on this, "My peace." This is now the peace of Christ. It's different, it's qualitatively different, substantively different. And he says, "I'm going to give this to you." I want everyone to hear this. This is for every follower of Jesus, every follower of Jesus and it's not enough to simply read that once and nod. You have to receive that gift. You have to pray it into being. You spend time in God's word.
You see, in my case it was cancer, stage four life-threatening cancer. But I would say it's the same if your family's falling apart. I would say it's the same if your finances are a wreck. It's the same if you are someone who simply gets anxious over North Korea or Iran or you don't even know why. There are a lot of people just get fearful and anxious and they don't even know why. But the truth of the matter is there is a supernatural gift that Jesus gives us. Now I've read that a lot in my life, but I really believe that we were prepared by the spirit of God. We spent months and months and months studying all of these passages about peace. So that was somehow a foundation in us that enabled us to deal with something I'd never ever expected to hear or ever wanted to hear.
Dr. Dobson: Dave that is so inspirational and it's very relevant today because of who's listening. I don't know their names, I will never know them. They're out there by the hundreds of thousands or millions. And I wish that I could put an arm around them today. I can't, but through this program we can offer courage and encouragement and hope. Not that they're necessarily going to be healed. I mean, a lot of people have died in the year that you have been convalescing.
Dave Butts: Oh my goodness. Absolutely. Kim and I are a part of a Facebook care group for people who have Mantle Cell Lymphoma. And there are several thousand people on that. And every now and then one of the caregivers there said, "I just lost my dad," or, "My husband just passed away," or, "My wife did." People who have had this and they've struggled through it and they lost that battle. It isn't the issue, remember, of healing that brings peace. It ultimately-
Dr. Dobson: It's who's in charge.
Dave Butts: -is the presence of Jesus.
Dr. Dobson: Yeah.
Dave Butts: See that's what brings peace. That's the reason the book, we called it Prayer, Peace, and the Presence of God. Because it's the presence of God that brings peace. In that little book every little chapter has one verse that has a passage about peace, except for one chapter. One chapter has a verse that doesn't have the word peace in that verse. And it's from Psalm 23. Because I love - and it meant so much to me going through this - I love how David said, "Even if you're walking through the valley of the shadow of death, there's no room for fear." See I have to tell you, when you have stage four cancer and the doctor looks at the PET scan and it just shows your whole chest black with cancer, and he looks at you and says, "Dave, you got to hurry."
Dr. Dobson: Was that the case?
Dave Butts: That was the case when I was down at MD Anderson, which really has a great specialist in this particular type of cancer. Only 3% of lymphoma patients have mantle cell lymphoma. It's very, very difficult to treat because it's different for everyone which makes it just frustrating for doctors trying to figure out how to handle this. And he said, "Dave, you got to hurry." See that's the valley of the shadow of death. But David, King David said, "Even if you're there, don't be afraid." And the reason is because someone's there with you. You're not walking through the Valley by yourself. And the wonderful thing is, scripture says, this person who's walking with you through the Valley has a rod and a staff. It's a symbol of a King and a shepherd and that's Jesus. I felt closer to Jesus and have continued to through this cancer than at any other time of my life.
And doctor, I feel like I was born in the church nursery. I've just kind of always known Jesus. But it was in the midst of this dark time that you so sense his presence. And the Lord and I had a lot of conversations about healing or not healing. And I have to be honest there was some times, especially early on when I was facing some of that nasty chemo and I said, "Lord, I'd really just like to go home and be with you."
Dr. Dobson: Did you really?
Dave Butts: Oh my, yes. I just said, "Lord I love my family and I hate to leave them, but this is costing money and this is hard and it's hard on them. Lord, I would just like to go be with you." And I had a couple of weeks where I would get up in the middle of the night, two or three in the morning, and just walk around the house worshiping and praying. And through that time I just said, "Lord, I would like to come home." And it was interesting about two or three weeks into that, and I don't hear any voices, but I just had this strong sense from the Lord. He said, "Look Dave, when I'm ready for you I'll come get you. Until then you're there." And I said, "Okay." Everything changed.
Dr. Dobson: In a way this has been a validation of your life. Hasn't it? Because I said you're a prayer warrior. I don't say that about many people, but you really are. You've devoted your life to prayer. And here was a time where it was all on the line. I mean, you can't fake it when you're facing what you were facing. And yet here you are a year later, you look fantastic. I know everybody tells you that, but there was a time when you and I crossed paths at a conference and I reached out my hand to shake your hand. And you said, "I'm sorry. I can't do that." Why did you say that to me?
Dave Butts: Oh because I was in chemo and my immune system was so low that shaking hands could have killed me.
Dr. Dobson: No kidding.
Dave Butts: I could have caught something. And again the thing there is you can become fearful. Now we wanted to be practical, we wanted to make sure we did smart things. But we did not want to give into fear. One of the most common commands in scripture, "Don't be afraid. Fear not."
Dr. Dobson: That's one of the toughest to live up to though.
Dave Butts: It is, but that's why Jesus said-
Dr. Dobson: I mean, things scare us. They really do. They scare Christians.
Dave Butts: Yeah. But that's the reason why Jesus said, "Here, have some peace. I want to give you something. It's something nobody else can give you. It's not as the world gives. I'm the only one who can give you this. Here, have some peace." Don't you love it?
Dr. Dobson: I do love it. And he has walked with me through some valleys of the shadow. Again, you have been an inspiration to Shirley and me and to so many other people because before you got sick, you were already leaning on the Lord. You were already calling on him. You were already praying for other people. And I appreciate the life that you've lived Dave.
Dave Butts: Well, I thank you for that. But I tell you there's an interesting kind of a side story to this. I've spent the last 25 years just doing nothing but teaching on prayer. I tell people I have a great job. I talk to God and I talked to people about talking to God. That's pretty much my job. So you never in your wildest imagination figured that somehow that would turn around and benefit yourself. I've taught so many people about prayer and now suddenly I found myself the recipient of thousands of prayers of people who prayed for me. And what an encouragement. I'll tell you what, I was in that hospital bed, I was in the sort of thing I had to go in for a week at a time.
Often with chemo you go in and you go to a cancer center and sit there for a couple hours in a chair and they drip poison into you called chemo and then you go home and come back in a couple of days or a week later. Mine was at a point they couldn't do that. They put me in for a solid week and gave me everything that my body could handle for a week, sent me home for two weeks to recover, and then back for another week. And I did that from February through June and came out of that fine. But what I realized, because I kept hearing whether it was email or Facebook or letters, there were thousands of people out there praying. There were people I would get letters from pastors in India saying, "Brother Dave, our congregations are praying for you." One of the first things, I had just got the cancer diagnosis and three days later I had an email from a group of missionaries in Papa New Guinea who were praying for me.
Dr. Dobson: Dave, did you ever get depressed? Did you ever get to the point where you said it's not worth it?
Dave Butts: I did not. I know that's a common thing that happens in illness of all kinds. But once again there was something, I hate to say the term again, but it's something supernatural that was going on. Even though I still had cancer, I didn't have what I would call a miraculous healing. I am so grateful for my oncologist and all these nurses and all the great medical care that I had. But it was a combination of those great medical personnel and all that they did and the medicine that they gave me, along with thousands of people praying. And then on top of that there was the power of the Word of God that just kept feeding my spirit regarding peace. And if you are walking in the peace of Christ it's very, very difficult. You have to work at getting depressed. You just almost have to reject what you're reading regarding peace.
Dr. Dobson: We've got two and a half minutes left and I want to focus directly on that patient out there that's struggling. The name of your book, it's a booklet but it's just a beautiful booklet, Prayer, Peace, and the Presence of God: A 30-Day Journey to Experience the Shalom of Jesus. Talk as best you can to those in the various walks of life. Some are dying, some just got the diagnosis, some are reeling with the awareness that they're not going to be able to live out a normal lifetime, and some have children who are sick. Talk to those people regardless of where they are and not all of them have spent a lifetime praying like you have.
Dave Butts: And I get that they've not all spent a life in prayer. But if you belong to Jesus, he has something for you. And I just want to say today, it's for you. It's for absolutely everyone who follows Jesus, "My peace I give to you." And he said, "Don't be afraid." And he did say this, "In this world you're going to have tribulation."
Dr. Dobson: And he didn't pull any punches about that.
Dave Butts: Absolutely. You're going to have tough times. I fully expect to have some more tough times. If it's not this cancer, if the Lord tarries something someday will take this life. That's something that happens. We often look to the Christian life to be somehow something to just smooth everything out and makes it nice. But Jesus said, "In this world you're going to have tribulation." And this was someone who was about to go to the cross when he said that.
Dr. Dobson: And he was talking to disciples, most of whom would be executed. I think all but two of them.
Dave Butts: Absolutely.
Dr. Dobson: And-
Dave Butts: So we need to understand that what Jesus offers us though is this astonishing gift. And I'm here to tell you in the midst of the toughest times of life Jesus said, "I will be with you. I will give you my peace." It may not change the outer circumstance. It might not somehow handle your finances. It may not bring physical healing. It may not suddenly… but it will give you peace. And this is a peace that is beyond all understanding. I remember when I was a kid, we sang a little song about the peace that passes understanding. And you know what I knew about that now? I know I don't understand it. I know I don't understand that. I can't intellectually explain to you why I can have stage four cancer and not be fearful. I don't understand that, but I know it's true.
Dr. Dobson: Two questions real quick. One is you are back on the road, you're obviously here. You are speaking, you're writing, you're serving the Lord and on the move aren't you?
Dave Butts: Absolutely. I love-
Dr. Dobson: You're not sitting in a wheelchair someplace or on a front porch. You are still carrying through with the mission and the message the Lord gave you. And now I want know about your family, how are they holding up and how did they hold up?
Dave Butts: Astonishingly well. And of course my wife, who had been studying this with me, our two sons, our grandkids. I think what happened is they looked at Kim and I and they said, "Oh if they can handle it, then we can too." And they did it great. I sent them all copies of the book.
Dr. Dobson: I'll bet you did.
Dave Butts: I wanted them to walk through this with us. And this is the only book I've ever written from a hospital bed. I hope it's the only one I have to.
Dr. Dobson: Dave, Shirley and I love you and love Kim and love your family and your mission, what you've done for the cause of Christ. There's no way to put an understanding of that because you've devoted your whole life to it. Thank you for coming and being with us, and peace my brother.
Dave Butts: Thank you. Peace be with you.
Roger Marsh: Well what an astonishing story of God's miraculous power and the true peace that only He can offer. If you're battling through a tough situation right now we would love to pray with and for you. Call our offices here at Family Talk at (877) 732-6825 and a member of our staff will be happy to pray with and over you. Again that number to call is (877) 732-6825. You can learn more about Dave Butts and Harvest Prayer Ministries by heading over to our broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org. There you will also find a link for Dave's devotional called Prayer, Peace, and the Presence of God. You'll find all of this by going to drjamesdobson.org and then clicking on today's broadcast page.
Be sure to join us again tomorrow when you'll hear a passionate message from our good friend, retired Lieutenant General Jerry Boykin. He'll talk about what it means to be a warrior for Jesus, especially in this increasingly hostile culture. Don't miss what he has to say on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh. Thanks for listening.
Announcer: This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
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