Roger Marsh: Hello and welcome back to Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh. Family Talk is a listener supported division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. It's because of listeners just like you, that support this radio ministry through your contributions, of course, and your prayers, that we're able to bring you quality broadcast like the one you're about to hear. For more information, by the way, on how you can stand with us, you can go to drjamesdobson.org.
Today, you're going to hear the conclusion of a two-part presentation given by author and speaker and Bible teacher, Kasey Van Norman. Kasey holds two Master of Arts degrees from Stephen F. Austin University, one in community counseling and the other in biblical studies. She's a plenary speaker for the Extraordinary Women's conferences and the American Association of Christian Counselors. Kasey lives in College Station, Texas, with her husband, Justin and their two kids. Now, the presentation you're about to hear is from a recent E women's event in Pensacola, Florida.
On yesterday's broadcast, Kasey began talking about the story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal, found in 1 Kings chapter 18. It's one of my all-time favorite stories, and I'm sure you appreciate it as well. She was emphasizing the fact that suffering happens in our lives for a reason. And that reason is to bring glory to God. Here now is the conclusion of Kasey Van Norman's presentation on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.
Kasey Van Norman: Have you been in a season of preparation of isolated pain, where God is getting you ready? He's just giving you what you need for the next day, the day, the day. Let me tell you what he's doing there. He's developing dependence and obedience. Dependence that you really believe that he is enough to feed you for this day. And he wants you to look and address anything that might be getting in the way of that. And then rip it all away. And then verse seven, did you see? "After a while the brook dried up because there was no rain in the land." He's also looking for obedience in this time because now Elijah has to get up and go, because the brook dried up. And I'm going to tell you, sometimes our obedience is leaving where we think we are and go where we're supposed to be.
And the brook is going to dry up. God doesn't want us to be confused. He is very clear about His will. But you have to read your Bible and trust it. We're over-complicating this thing, sisters. We are. He wants to show you who He is. He's not trying to hide from you or make it complex, He wants to show you very clearly how much He loves you and what He has for you. And you can really just look around your life sometimes and go, "I have been sitting in this thing and It's just deteriorating me from the inside out." Maybe it's resentment, maybe it's bitterness. Maybe we're just clinging to this desire for an apology or an acknowledgement in some relationship that hurt us years and years ago, we're still hanging on to it and they've moved on and we're still sitting here, still in the cave, trying to scrounge up that last bit of bread, that last bit of meat. We're just sitting there trying to dig through the dirt and find that last bit of water. And God's going, "my baby..."
It's like He told Samuel when he's mourning, Saul as the king, He goes, why are you still sitting here mourning? I have moved on. I'm over here at David now. Samuel, get up and stop grieving the thing that I've already moved on. I am moving you. Now, stand firm and be courageous and do the next thing. Let's keep going. Bump over to 1 Kings chapter 18, starting in verse one. Scene two, scene two. Here we go. It's really good. It's getting good.
After many days, the word of the Lord came to Elijah in the third year saying, "Now go show yourself to Ahab and I will send rain upon the earth. So Elijah went to show himself to Ahab." Ramping down to verse 17. "When Ahab saw Elijah, Ahab said to him, "is it you, you troubler of Israel?" And he answered, oh, "I have not troubled Israel, but you have and your father's house because you have abandoned the commandments of the Lord and followed the Baals. Now, therefore..." This is Elijah speaking to king Ahab, "Therefore, send and gather all of Israel to me at Mount Carmel and the 450 prophets of Baal and the 400 prophets of the Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table."
So basically, King Ahab had set up all of these men as little G-prophets, 450 and more. And there's just the one Elijah, Yahweh's prophet, now saying to King Ahab, go get all these other men and you meet me at Mount Carmel. It's like a movie.
Verse 20, "So Ahab sent to all the people of Israel and gathered the prophets together at Mount Carmel. And Elijah came near to all the people and he said, 'How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the Lord is God follow him. But if Baal is God, follow him. And the people did not answer him a word.'" Of course, they didn't. Then Elijah said the people, "I, even I only, am left a prophet of the Lord. But Baal's prophets are 450 men. So let two bulls be given to us and let them choose one bull for themselves and cut it in pieces and lay it on the wood, but put no fire to it. And I will prepare the other bull and lay it on the wood and put no fire to it. And you call upon the name of your God. And I will call upon the name of the Lord." Do you see that? You call on your God. I'm going to call on the Lord. Where do we need to say that right now? It's not in my notes. That's the spirit. Oh man.
"You call upon the name of your God, I will call upon the Lord. And the God who answers by fire, he is God." And the people all said, "it as well-spoken." Just means they agreed. And then Elijah said to the profits of Ball, "Choose for yourselves, one bull and prepare it first, for you are many and call upon the name of your god, but put no fire to it. And they took the bull that was given to them and they prepared it and they called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, 'oh, Baal, answer us.' But there was no voice, no one answered. And they limped around the altar they had made." Limped.
Can you picture this? Okay. There's one of Elijah. There's all these... He's stacking the odds, you see? He's saying, you go first. I love Elijah. He's pretty sarcastic. You're about to see it get real good. He says, you go first. There's all of you. There's just one of me. Go ahead. But I want you to notice the words that he's using, and he's very clear about what is happening in the hearts of all of these other people who've rejected God. They are limping around two different opinions. Did you see that? He used that word twice. That's important for us because the second way that God wants to be worthy of our trust is to establish our heart in the truth.
And as long as we are limping between two different opinions, we're not believing him. And we can go big, we can say that we're really living in this time right now. There's all these different religions and rituals and different ways of, I mean, my goodness. And for us to be on the fence with that is like limping through life. But we can even say internally, and that's what I want to draw it into. Just you, sister, alone with your thoughts at the end of the day, when you lay your head down on your pillow at night, what is the truth of you and what is the lie? And which one do you believe more?
And this is really what God is saying to us. If You don't trust me, if You don't believe the truth and how are you going to know the truth if you don't read your Bible? I live my truth, you live your truth. I need an absolute truth. You see, I need a truth that's bigger than me, that's greater than my one dimensional view of the world, that only knows what I know because my parents taught it to me and I've had to relearn a million things, but I still only have one way of seeing things. You see what I'm saying? I need an absolute truth. That's stronger than time, than space, than pain and trauma, than what I think, my opinion. I need something stronger than my opinion, please.
And the Lord wants us to know it. He wants us to stop wavering. It's the only time in the Bible that wavering in our unbelief, it makes the Lord sick. It's the only time you really see this nausea of God. It's in Revelation 3:16 and He says, "I would rather you be hot or I would rather you be cold. But when you waiver between the truth and the lie of who I've made you to be, it makes me want to vomit you out of my mouth." And I don't know about you, but that breaks my heart.
That's sobers my spirit to go, "I never want the Lord to feel that way about me. I've got to choose." And I'm asking you, sister, today, I'm asking you like Elijah is saying, will you decide? Will you just decide? We don't want to be on the sidelines anymore. Right? I want to be in the game. I want to be in the war. And if my life is not bloody and broken and bruised, I'm not in the fight. If there is not sacrifice on my part, if I'm not bearing and picking up a cross daily, something is wrong.
So I want to look at that and I want to look at the lie that I'm believing instead, because we're not half-full. The society and culture is going to tell you that we are glasses half full. I'm here to tell you the Bible tells us that we are full of something and we are full of it all the time, either a truth or lie, that's it. There's no gray zone. We're either believing truth of God, about what He says, who He is and who we are in Him, or we're believing a lie. Oh my goodness.
We're going to keep reading it just a little bit because He gives us two specific ways how we are believing a lie. What could be causing us to falter or be indecisive in what we believe about God. Verse 27, "And at noon, Elijah mocked them saying..." This is my favorite part because there's not a lot of usefulness for mockery in ministry, but sometimes people just asking for it. "At noon, Elijah mocked them saying, cry aloud for he is God, either he is musing or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey or perhaps he's asleep and must be awakened."
Now I'm putting my Kasey, Texas slang on that. You know what I'm saying? But that's really the Bible. He is mocking this other god. So what did they do? Pay attention. "They cried louder and they cut themselves, after their custom, with swords and lances until the blood gushed out upon them. And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the ablation. But there was no voice, no one answered, no one paid attention."
Do you see what's happening here? We've got this dancing and this raving around and rituals, and they're going to cry louder and get louder. And they're going to cut themselves. Do you see, this cutting themselves, it's what it feels like to us. Where are we harming ourselves? Not just physically cutting ourself, but where are we cutting our soul? Cutting our mind. We are self-sabotaging because of what? Shame. There's a word for it. And it's shame. It's embarrassment of our vulnerability. And I only use that word because it's the first word that God uses attached to sinfulness and idolatry in Genesis in the Bible. You now feel shame because you feel unworthy to come before me. You're embarrassed because you're choosing to worship something other than me.
And that's what all these prophets of Baal are doing, because we're made to worship something. We're always worshiping something with our life. Always worshiping something with our life. And God wants us to choose. And if we're slashing ourselves, self-sabotaging, letting shame have its way with us, it's like harming. And then please don't miss the, "raved on, continued to dance and get louder." You know what this is a mark of? Religion, religion.
You've got to do X, Y, and Z to earn the presence of God, to earn His love. Oh, it just breaks my heart because so many of us are living this way. We're just getting louder. We're serving in more ministries. We're checking more boxes. We're doing more things because we think that's finally going to be the thing that gets us into the presence of God. And He's saying, oh man, get rid of it. I don't need you to do anything to get to me. I sent my son as a sacrifice for you, I've done the work for you. It is finished.
Verse 30, "Then Elijah ..." We're coming to the end. Verse 30, "Then Elijah said to all the people, come near to me. And all the people came near to him and he repaired the altar of the Lord that had been thrown down. Elijah took 12 stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord came saying, Israel shall be your name. And with the stones, he built an altar in the name of the Lord." And then watch this. "And he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two seahs of seed. And he put the wood in order and he cut the bull in pieces and he laid it on the wood. And he said, fill four jars with water and pour it on the burnt offering and on the wood. And he said, do it a second time. And they did it a second time. And he said, do it a third time. And they did it a third time. And the water ran around the altar and it filled the trench.
How is God's setting your heart on truth? Baby, He's looking for that disadvantage in your life. He loves Him a disadvantage. He loves the parts of us that are messy, that we're not looking for, that we would never use on our own. All the unlikely things that would cancel us out to other people, make us unuseful to other people, that's a part of you that he wants. It is his way. It's in the trench. It's on the third jar of water, when everything seems impossible and unlikely. It is the marriage on the brink of divorce. It is the addiction you just don't think you can shake. It is the hurt and the pain and the trauma so deep you don't know that you will ever be free of it. It is the friend that walked away and it just breaks your heart and you're replaying the tape on how you could do it different, what you'd say to her if she came back. Oh, it's in all the things that we don't see. Just, what would happen?
What would happen if we would quit asking God to remove us from that fire and instead dig another trench or pour some more water on. What would happen if we would let God use the disadvantage in our life, you know what I mean?
Wow. But He wants to use you. He has a call for you. He has a purpose for you. And He's using everything in your life, every relationship and every experience to tell you the truth and to set your heart on truth. And then finally He wants to purpose your heart, for what? For only His glory. And I'm going to read the very final part in 36. "And at the time of the offering of the ablation, Elijah, the prophet, came near and he said, "Oh Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel. And that I am your servant." You see the proper place Elijah is given? "You are God, I am your servant. And that I've done all these things by your word."
Verse 37, "Answer me, oh Lord. Answer me." Watch. "That this people may know that you, oh Lord our God, and that You have turned, their hearts back. You, God, have turned their hearts back. Wow. What freedom, what freedom? "Then the fire of the Lord, fell and consumed the burnt offering and the wood and the stones and the dust and it licked up all that water in the trench." Let's say it again. The fire of the Lord consumed the burnt offering and the wood and the stones and the dust and all the water.
I mean, that's Elijah's mic drop, if I've ever seen one. Best part of the story and I'm wrapping up right here. Because this is what I want for us right now. "And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces and they said, the Lord, he is God. The Lord, he is God." Will you say it with me?
Kasey and audience: The Lord, he is God.
Kasey van Norman: One more time.
Kasey and audience: The Lord, he is God.
Kasey van Norman: Will you trust Him in all the unlikely places of your life, oh sister? I'm so with you. I've been in that trench. I've been in that pain. I've been in isolation. I have watched the Lord rescue me from sexual abuse, from addiction. I've walked a road of infidelity with my husband and watched the Lord restore parts of me that I didn't even know needed to be restored.
I have sat through three years in a cave with chemotherapy and a cancer diagnosis that was supposed to take my life. And I'm going to tell you, there came a time for me where I just had to decide that He was better than what I didn't know yet. He's better. And He is worthy of our trust. And whether you are in a season in the cave of isolation, of pain, He wants you to decide that He is good. And He wants to tell you the trick about who you are. And remember that all of this is not about us. It is for Him and the purposes in your life are going to give Him glory. Going to give Him glory. So can I pray for you, sister?
Father, God, you, oh Lord, are God. You, oh Lord, are God. And we want to stand firm in the truth that You are absolute. You are unconditional. You love us just because You want to love us. And You come after us every day. You turn our hearts to You. There is not one thing that we have done, that we are doing or that we will do that will ever compromise who we are in You because you sent your son to pay the ultimate price and finish our work, Lord, so we don't have to fix it. We don't have to fix ourselves. We don't have to fix that person or our husband, our children, Lord, we get to trust You. We get to sit by the brook and eat day, by day, by day and be completely dependent and content in obedient Lord, because You were faithful first. You were faithful first.
We love you so much. And Lord, I just pray that you are moving in the heart and speaking to the heart of everyone within the sound of my voice, Lord, reminding each sister and woman here, that they are so loved by you and that you are using everything in their life. The season that they're in right now of pain and doubt and questioning and longing, Lord. That You are using it to bring Yourself glory. And You will show Yourself faithful. We trust You and we love You. And we all say together, amen. I love ya. I love you. Thank you for being here.
Roger Marsh: Amen. Wow. What an incredible testimony of God's goodness, faithfulness and power. Jeremiah 29 verses 13 and 14 say, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all of your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord and will bring you back from captivity."
What an encouragement from the God who numbers every hair on our heads and knows all of our hurts and pains even better than we do. You've just heard part two of Kasey Van Norman's presentation entitled, Nothing Wasted, How God Heals Our Broken Past. To listen to part one or any part of the broadcast that you might've missed today, go to drjamesdobson.org/broadcast. And while you're there, you can also learn more about Kasey, her ministry and her book entitled, Nothing Wasted. That's drjamesdobson.org/broadcast.
And of course, you can also give us a call if you have any questions about today's broadcast, the ministry of Family Talk or the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. We're here all day every day to answer your questions, recommend resources, and especially to pray with you. Call 877- 732-6825. That's 877-732-6825.
Well, that's all the time we have for today. Thanks for joining us here on Family Talk. Our ministry aim is to bolster the institution of the family and to encourage Christians in their walk with the Lord. And we couldn't do any of this without you, and your prayers and your financial support. From Dr. Dobson, his wife, Shirley, Dr. Tim Clinton, and all of us here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, I'm Roger Marsh. God's richest blessings to you and your family. Thanks for listening.
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