Roger Marsh: Thank you for joining us for Family Talk, the radio ministry of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Roger Marsh, and over the past couple of days, we've heard a very compelling presentation from Charlie Kirk. Charlie has shared personal stories, the reasons he wants to encourage young people to understand where their rights truly come from, and what the road ahead looks like for his organization, Turning Point USA. Today we will be hearing from our own Dr. James Dobson as he sits down with Charlie Kirk, and together they'll dive a bit deeper into the work that Charlie is doing.
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Well, we hope you enjoy today's program. The conversation we're about to hear with Dr. Dobson and Charlie Kirk took place at a recent live event in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Let's listen in right now.
Dr. James Dobson: Charlie, you set my soul on fire.
Charlie Kirk: Thank you. Thank you.
Dr. James Dobson: If every pastor in America could hear your message and buy into it and repeat it, churches couldn't hold the number of people that would come. They are waiting for somebody who believes what they say and that put their money where their mouth is. We were talking at lunch today that you have regularly gone to Cal Berkeley.
Charlie Kirk: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: Of all places, and you came out alive.
Charlie Kirk: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: Where do you get the guts to do that?
Charlie Kirk: So I grew up in Chicago, which is... The fun thing about being from Illinois, as a sidebar, is we have term limits. It's one term in office, one term in jail for all of our leaders. But look, I'm a Scot, and it's kind of in my blood to love a good fight. And I'll be honest. Yeah, Berkeley gets lively, and Victor was there and helped on our security detail, and there were some people I think that wanted me dead. Would that be fair, Victor to say?
Yep. But Victor ministered to them. He did. And he really... There were some demons that needed to be confronted there. But look, I really take my faith seriously. At least for me, I know how the story ends. And we're not called to be foolish, so of course, I go with the right protection and stuff to Berkeley and all this stuff. But I'm also just not comfortable only talking to people that agree with me all the time.
I find such invigoration and excitement and energy to go to places where not a soul agrees with me. That is the coolest thing in the world. No, I mean that. And we are the speaking beings, right? We're made in the image of God. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was God, and the Word became flesh. The other way we talk about the creation stories, God spoke things into existence. So our ability to speak, the common noun miracle to have rational speech, is all that keeps us from the beasts and the barbarians of the past. And so, if we can't go to Berkeley and have a conversation, then we're done, so I enjoy it.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, we hear about these rallies that take place to try to keep people like you from coming in there, and some of them get very threatening.
Charlie Kirk: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: How do you manage to get the right to speak there and do things like you just said, where you talked about the transgender nonsense and took it on? What do these radicals do when you do that?
Charlie Kirk: Some of them act as if there is such a clear demonic element, screaming, breaking stuff and windows and all of that. And look, I'm very outspoken on the trans thing. I call it the Alphabet Mafia that comes after you to try to destroy your life. This is a cartel of a regime that is trying to destroy gender norms. I go as far to say that if someone is thinking that they're transgender, that they are participating in an equivalent of gender blackface, that they are trying to pretend something that they are not, to appropriate an identity to try to blur right and wrong, just to give you an idea of kind of a flavor of how blunt I am on these campuses.
And most kids are kind of in shock and in silence when I say this. But honestly, a lot of kids that will find that to be oppositional, we have a way we run our events and anyone who's been at a Turning Point USA Campus event will tell you that we do this every time. If you disagree, you get to ask the first question. You go to the front of the line and you get the mic for a minute and tell me why you disagree. And then, we're going to have a conversation. And it always goes well for me.
Dr. James Dobson: Tell me if the students on these radical campuses really do want to hear the truth. Is there really a hunger for the gospel that just isn't finding expression?
Charlie Kirk: Somewhat. Look, there's a great quote, where it's not about the conversions, it's about the conversations, right? So some of these kids have never been exposed at all to our metaphysical belief, to what we believe and why we believe it, but they certainly think they know things about Christianity. And a common one that you'll hear is that more people have died because of Christianity, another belief point, belief system, a complete and total fallacious lie from the enemy.
When I say I set up a table, I just want you all to understand how intimate this entire kind of experience is. I will sit in a chair like this on the college campus in the middle of the quad and set up a card table, and anyone can come up and ask a question, right? And we have security and stuff and it can get lively, but that's when you really get to get into the conversations.
And after about 20 minutes, after 40 minutes, yeah, they're talking about abortion or politics, it always goes the same direction. They'll ask one question, "Are you religious?" I say, "Yeah, of course I am." And they say, "Why?" And of course, this is where the spiritual component starts to manifest itself, right? Because everything else is just a physical representation of that. And at least in Austin last week, while everything else was going along, 200 kids listening, you could hear a pin drop when I was sharing the gospel. I don't know how impactful it was, but they were like, "Well, the Bible is just legendary documents that has never been proven true." And you might as well just do a softball pitch, right? For anyone that's been through a basic apologetics course, right? There's never been an archeological discovery that has disproven the Bible. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John is the most accurate historical documents ever in the history of the world with the most verification, and we can even go through more, an incredible amount of depth there.
There is more curiosity, Doctor, than I think people realize. It doesn't happen overnight, but what I have learned is that watering it down and pandering is the worst thing you can do. You have to be truthful and courageous. And you might even have someone be so offended by what you say, you just have to hold the line and do it in love. And here's the coolest thing. Over a period of time, some of our Turning Point USA chapter leaders are former people on the left and former atheists. And they were turned at first, hearing something that they found to be so outrageous and appalling, and then they thought about it and the Holy Spirit went to work. And next thing you know, they give their life to the Lord, and they're starting a Turning Point chapter and their whole life has changed.
Dr. James Dobson: That's so encouraging to all of us. You were telling me at lunch, too, today the number of students, young people that you've led to the Lord.
Charlie Kirk: Yes.
Dr. James Dobson: What's that number?
Charlie Kirk: So it's an approximation, but it's definitely in the thousands. And we only have been doing it, really kind of these worship nights, to kind of reinforce what we do here. And you guys are all welcome to our events. And the events are branded as a celebration of America, a celebration of liberty, where we all have pastors like Jack Hibbs and we'll have speakers like Bob McEwen come. And then, we have those worship nights and then we have those worship services, and it will just bring tears to your eyes of these kids that are there for conservative ideas and values that are then committing their life to the Lord. I think Victor alone has brought three of our staff members to the Lord in the last 90 days. Is that about right Victor? But I know this-
Dr. James Dobson: He's another one that's got the courage of his conviction.
Charlie Kirk: Well, that's why we get along so well, I've got to tell you, because look, time is running thin, everybody. We don't have time for gutless wonders. We just don't, right? I have no patience for them. Now is not the time for that. But Doctor, it's so incredible to see because it is the opposite what I was told by institutional Christianity, which is kind of institutional Christianity has always said politics will turn people off.
And that might be true in some homes and some communities, but when we have an event and there's 10,000 young people there, 10,000 young people for conservative ideas to celebrate America, don't believe me, come to Phoenix December 17, 18, 19, 20, you'll be blown away. And I would say half are Christian and maybe half of them are serious about their faith. But all of a sudden, they start to realize that our speakers are all talking about God-given rights, talking about giving their life to the Lord, and they want some of what they're hearing. And in some ways, it's this amazing ministry opportunity that I think we have never realized. But it starts with truth. It doesn't start with pandering. It doesn't start with all the kind of pizazz that people say that you have to do. The truth is like a lion. Once you set it free, it'll take care of itself.
Dr. James Dobson: Where'd you get the vision to go with this in the beginning? And you had no way of knowing that you would have the reception that you've had. And yet, you had this passion to tell the truth. That's what is most impressive about you, is that you waded into the den of lions fearlessly, or so it appears from here. Was there any kind of a revelation? How did the call come to do what you're doing?
Charlie Kirk: Thank you for those kind words, Doctor. It really means a lot. Look, when I was in high school, I wanted to go to West Point. Everyone in kind of my local community went to college. And some of you at lunch heard me tell this story before, I didn't get into West Point. Best thing that ever happened to me, decided to take a gap year, turned into a gap decade, still on my gap decade by the way. And here's actually the one thing, the way I could answer that question, "Where does it come from?" I hate bullies and I always have. And I'm not the guy that will sit idly by when an injustice unfolds. That's just the way I'm wired. Some of you can resonate with that. Some of you might say, "I don't quite understand it."
And so, I just wasn't the type of guy that was okay with watching an entire generation become increasingly left and secular and in that direction. And so, I started Turning Point USA, some great mentors. Bill Montgomery and Foster Friess were the two ones that really kind of got us started. Bill Montgomery, may he rest in peace, was literally a 72-year old. I was 18. First thing he ever said to me after he heard me give a speech was, "You shouldn't go to college." And he was the first person ever in my life to say, "You have a gift of speaking." I never heard it.
But honestly, Doctor, it always came back to my faith. It did, is that my faith was the bedrock that gave me the why. But I want to speak a little bit about this though, because while I was always a Christian throughout the growth of Turning Point USA, if you go to the early speeches of Turning Point USA in '13, '14, '15, '16, and some people in the line were remarking on this and they're totally right, which is, "Charlie, I didn't know you were a Christian." Because even I was raised in a church community where I was told, "You do not talk about these two things together, ever."
And it wasn't until I met Pastor Rob McCoy at Liberty University, my now pastor, where he blew my mind. We had a four-hour conversation from 8:00 PM to 1:00 AM, where he said, "Charlie, everything you're doing is about liberty, which is God's idea, not man's idea. You're talking about truth." He said, "The church is about that. What you're doing on college campuses," he said, "you should speak more openly about your faith." And it really challenged me to do that.
And I'll tell you what. When I made that decision, we had some group of Turning Point donors that said, "Charlie, I hate the fact you're doing more of this. I don't like it." And we lost them. And honestly, but we have been blessed a hundred times, a thousand times, the more bold we've been about our faith, the more bold we've been about our convictions. And it's been awesome, it really has.
Roger Marsh: You're listening to Family Talk, and I'm Roger Marsh. Our guest today on the program is Charlie Kirk. Just a quick bit about Charlie. He is the founder and President of Turning Point USA, which seeks to educate and organize students to promote freedom. Charlie is a godly man who has a deep desire to educate the next generation about God and the political world.
Today we are hearing a conversation between our very own Dr. James Dobson and Charlie Kirk as we get deeper insight into the work that Charlie is doing. This conversation was recorded at a live event organized by Dr. Dobson here in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Let's jump back in right now and hear more from Charlie Kirk and Dr. James Dobson on this special edition of Family Talk.
Dr. James Dobson: You are defending the underdog, aren't you? You're going into territory that others are afraid to mention, as you just said. I don't want to sound self-serving here, but I have that same desire to reach out to those who are being oppressed.
Charlie Kirk: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: When I was five years old, Pearl Harbor occurred. And on our block there was a little Italian boy, they called him a dago. They made fun of him. They rejected him. My friends in the neighborhood gave him grief, and I left the safety of that larger group to be the only friend for that kid. I feel that same way about mothers at home and others who are being oppressed by the culture. And we really need to be bold in standing up for what we believe.
Charlie Kirk: Amen. That's so beautiful. And let me also say though, one of the reasons why our message is gaining in popularity is when I'll go talk about how most American women should become mothers and be proud of that, all of a sudden, you will see some girls, their eyes will open up in the audience and they will say, "Finally somebody says that out loud." You know they don't hear that at all at a secular college? They are told, "Nothing but career. Wait till you get married."
It just actually happens to be a majority of young women are asking for cultural permission to do what they really want to do, which is to go get married and have children. And I'm telling you, you get attacked from everyone when you say that. I don't care. And I encourage you not to care, because there's actually this silent majority, this massive population of young people, that are asking for somebody to give them permission to do what they're actually wired by God to do.
Dr. James Dobson: Amen. I was counseling a young woman, she was about 20 years of age, about her life and where she was going. And she said, "Can I tell you something honestly?" And I said, "That's why you're here. Do that." And she looked at me and said, "I don't want a career at all. I want to be a wife and mother." I said, "Sally, why do you have to whisper it to me?" And she said, "Are you kidding?" She went to Cal, it wasn't Berkeley, but she went to one of the California universities. And she said, "If my professors and even my friends knew that I wanted to do that, they would laugh me out of school." And I determined to do what I could to change that. It's an uphill battle, but it's part of the same thing, but it's the truth.
Charlie Kirk: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: Truth with a capital T.
Charlie Kirk: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: I only have one word of advice for you as I listen to you. I hope you will not forget this. Don't forget that that little girl that you have needs you. You are on the road 300 days a year. That won't work as a father.
Charlie Kirk: Yeah.
Dr. James Dobson: You've got to find a way to balance those things a bit.
Charlie Kirk: It's currently a big concern, because we've got a lot of work to do, but family comes first, so someone's going to have to step up.
Dr. James Dobson: Charlie, where do you go from here? You've hit that pinnacle, what you've been able to accomplish with God's blessing and His direction. What is the future? What's the next step in what He wants you to do?
Charlie Kirk: Well, thank you. I'm probably too hard on myself, because to actually hear you say that is very touching, because I always think I'm not doing enough and that we're not pushing forward. So thank you for saying that. I love radio. I see it really growing. We're on 12:00-3:00 every single day, honored to be in the rush slot on 145 stations across the country, and obviously, podcasting as well and also on Real America's Voice if any of you guys watch that, really great channel. And Salem has been just the best partner. You know what's so great? I have to say, working with Salem and working with Real America's Voice them together. And Salem especially, I have never received a phone call after one of my spicier segments ever, meaning I could say what I want and proclaim truth and they always have my back. That's a big deal, by the way, in media today. You don't find that.
Dr. James Dobson: I experienced the same thing.
Charlie Kirk: With Salem?
Dr. James Dobson: With Salem.
Charlie Kirk: Yes. They always have your back when you proclaim truth. And that's a very rare thing, it really is. And so look, with Turning Point USA on the high school and college side, as I said, we're on pace to hit a thousand high school chapters, and our college chapter continuing. We really want to be able to have basically full court coverage, if you will, to get to 5,000 high school chapters. We think we can do that. It's going to be incredibly ambitious. We've got to hire a lot more staff, but we think we can get that done.
We have Turning Point Academy, which is growing like gangbusters with our partnership with Hillsdale College and many others, where we want to try to have a thousand church hybrid micro schools across America to make homeschooling easier, but not necessarily homeschooling, but one or two days of bridge schooling, you could say, pod schooling, and that's taking off like gangbusters.
And then, my focus in the church is, I want to excommunicate the woke mind parasite from the American church. That's my current obsession, it really is, that is trying to destroy the American family, trying to destroy inherent theology. I think I'm probably in a better position than most to speak openly about it. And also we have TPUSA Faith. I think we're one of the few organizations, and Dr. Dobson, I think you could be one of the others, that can get swinging from the chandelier Pentecostals and Five Point Calvinists and Episcopalians all in the same room to agree that we need to do something about liberty and to destroy the woke, because-
Dr. James Dobson: That's pretty graphic there, Charlie.
Charlie Kirk: The swinging from the chandelier Pentecostals?
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah.
Charlie Kirk: You should come to one of these churches I spoke at. That's the least of what they're doing. Snakes, they've got the whole thing. That's fine. That's great. They want to do something about liberty. But I'll say, we have all these theological differences, or not necessarily me, but all of them. And if I was in the room, they might be fighting about them. We have kind of a rule at TPUSA Faith, which is if we do not get liberty right, then you're all going to be having your theological disputes from prison. And so, we have to have this be the body of Christ believing in the Nicene Creed, united for this idea of liberty and the American family. And so, we've got a lot of projects we're doing, Doctor. We're just getting started.
Dr. James Dobson: I'm sure you agree that ultimately, the hope for America is a nationwide or worldwide revival.
Charlie Kirk: It's the only hope.
Dr. James Dobson: And that our prayer life should focus on that, because everything else is good, but not the ultimate solution.
Charlie Kirk: It's the only hope.
Dr. James Dobson: Charlie, with your permission, we're going to go straight to the radio program, including what we're saying.
Charlie Kirk: Please do. I look forward to the mail from pastors.
Dr. James Dobson: And I joined. That'll be something of gold.
Charlie Kirk: Bring it on.
Dr. James Dobson: Thank you for being our guest. Let me tell you what this man did. He flew here from Florida today, flies back to Phoenix tomorrow. He did not have the time to be here tonight. He came because he felt like he should, and that's what drives this man. And let's give him a rousing appreciation.
Charlie Kirk: It's a great honor. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
Roger Marsh: Well, what a thought-provoking and insightful conversation featuring our own Dr. James Dobson and Charlie Kirk today here on Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh. And you know, Charlie really takes his faith very seriously. He truly has a gift of delivering an impassioned presentation. He seeks to hold the line and dive in to line of fire in the hearts of our youth for God.
In addition to his work with Turning Point USA, Charlie also hosts the daily national radio program called The Charlie Kirk Show, as well as Saving America with Charlie Kirk, which simulcast on Real America's Voice Television News Network. He's a best-selling author and a columnist, and a frequent contributor to Fox News who reaches over 100 million people on social media.
We hope that you enjoyed today's program and we would love to get your feedback on it. Please reach out to our customer care team by phone at 877- 732-6825, and you can make a comment about the program. You can also share your prayer request and we'd be happy to pray with and for you as well. That number again is 877-732-6825. And don't forget that when you do call, you can also make a donation to support our ministry right over the phone. If you prefer, you can send your donation through the U.S. Mail. Our ministry mailing address is the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado. The zip code, 80949.
Well, thanks so much for listening to Family Talk today. We hope that God has touched your heart through today's powerful message, and we pray that you'll join us again next time. Till then, I'm Roger Marsh. Have a blessed day, and may God continue to richly bless you and yours as you grow in your relationship with Him.
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