Roger Marsh: Hello, and welcome back to Family Talk, the broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. I'm Roger Marsh. And today you're going to hear the conclusion of a two-part conversation between Dr. Dobson and his good friend and colleague, Gary Bauer. Now before we get started I'd like to introduce Dr. Dobson's guest for today, Gary Bauer. Gary is a Christian conservative advocate for the family. He's the president of American Values, a nonprofit organization committed to uniting the American people around the vision of our founding fathers. Gary Bauer has a daily radio commentary that airs on the Bott Radio Network, and a daily end of day current affairs newsletter that is emailed to hundreds of thousands of constituents.
He has worked with Dr. Dobson at Focus on the Family where he served as senior vice president, and also served as president of the Family Research Council. Gary Bauer has also served as chief domestic policy advisor to President Ronald Reagan, and Under Secretary of Education during the Reagan administration. Now in yesterday's broadcast, Dr. Dobson and Gary Bauer set up their conversation by talking about that 1990 book, Children at Risk. If you'd like to listen to that broadcast, just go to drjamesdobson.org/broadcast. On today's program, these two old friends will be offering advice on how we as Christians can participate in, and win the culture war. Let's go to that conversation right now.
Dr. James Dobson: Gary, we closed the program yesterday by saying that we're going to talk again today. And one of the things I want to pick up with was my statement that we are losing the civil war of values that we talked about. That it might be irretrievable, but I want to begin with that. Do we still have a hope of saving our nation, or is it gone forever?
Gary Bauer: We would sound like fools if we tried to claim that we've been winning over the last 30 years, we haven't. By almost every measurement things are worse, and the trend lines are bad. There are things happening now that even our book didn't anticipate, like the confusion about how many genders there are? We're living in some bizarre world now where things that are clearly true can't be said, and things that are clearly lies are said regularly, but being followers of Jesus Christ, and men of faith, and our listeners being men and women of faith, we know it's never hopeless. And I still believe, although it's going to take a lot to do, I still think we can turn this around. And, of course, our savior can always perform miracles.
I think the American people know something is deeply wrong, and I've been encouraged, Jim, in recent weeks to see these parents, these mama bears, I guess, if you want to call them, particularly mothers showing up at these school board meetings, objecting to what's being taught to their children. I see more men and women of faith willing to go to demonstrations and speak out. I see churches that are beginning to speak more aggressively against the popular culture.
Dr. James Dobson: Gary, how widespread is that movement?
Gary Bauer: Well, it's hard to measure. And I think you and I share that, particularly the church part of this, there's been a lack of leadership. And as the Bible tells us, if we deprive the flock of leaders, the flock perishes. But there are churches that are standing up against this drift into popular culture. And I think maybe broadcasts like this will encourage them to do more. The other thing that I've noticed, Jim, is that even some of my neighbors who are liberals, I'm not saying they're going to start voting conservative, but even they are beginning to say, "Gary, what is this stuff about 52 genders? And when did we think it was a good idea to start teaching our children that all white children are oppressors, and all minority children are oppressed." It's bad all the way around.
Dr. James Dobson: Back in the day when we were writing, and we were in the era that we've been describing, I had a lot of Christian leaders who told me we were overreacting, that there was no civil war of values, in fact, I had very prominent Christian leaders who told me that it was wrong to even use the word, civil war, culture war, and things of that nature. And we took a lot of heat for what we wrote. I wonder if those people are still out there and if they still think we're wrong.
Gary Bauer: Well, Jim, I remember those days well. Both of us, I think were used to getting letters from people on the other side of hate-filled, calling us all sorts of names. You were getting those kinds of letters. I was getting them at the Family Research Council, telephone calls, et cetera, that didn't really impact me very much, but we would periodically get letters from the elders of churches, so from pastors of churches, saying, what are you trying to do? Cause trouble? Why are you getting us involved in politics? And those letters, I found it very hard to deal with.
Dr. James Dobson: I don't think we anticipated what is taking place now. And that's why our focus is still upon the children, it has to be, that's the next generation. We lose it there, we lose it. And we've got to mobilize to take back the public schools.
Gary Bauer: Well, we certainly do, Jim. I'm encouraged by the growing number of people who are sending their children to Christian schools, I'm encouraged by the growth in homeschooling. But the fact of the matter is that for the foreseeable future, the great majority of our children will be taught in the public schools. And we can't let those public schools be in the hands of left-wing cultural radicals that are undermining everything that we believe in. And I want to emphasize, again, Jim, not only undermining Judeo-Christian values, but undermining the United States.
Jim, you and I love to quote the founders. I grew up in my blue collar home back in Kentucky being taught by my parents, and in the school, about Thomas Jefferson and George Washington and Patrick Henry, those stories about George Washington not being able to tell a lie. Those kinds of stories inspired me as a kid and made me proud to be an American. You tell those stories today and they got blank looks on their faces. They don't know what you're talking about. All they've been taught is anti-American history. So it's not only that God has been replaced in our schools, it's that love of country has been taken out of the schools.
Dr. James Dobson: Let's define some terms. We here at James Dobson Family Institute devoted a couple of programs recently to the woke culture, especially as it's taking place in being taught in schools and churches for that matter. And CRT and other things that's taken place. Describe, as a place to start, critical race theory as it relates to children.
Gary Bauer: Well, critical race theory is in fact racist. It is the exact opposite of Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King, of course, said that his goal was not to hate America, he loved America. He said he wanted to be sure not that the founders were thrown overboard, and that the founding documents were disposed of. He wanted to be sure that black men and women were included in the promises of the founding documents. And so Martin Luther King and his famous speech said that he wanted an America in the future where men and women would not be judged by the color of their skin, but the content of their character.
Well, so-called critical race theory is teaching young people that the color of their skin is everything. It defines them. They can't be anything other than what the color of their skin requires them to be. Jim, today Martin Luther King, in my view, would not be allowed to enter a public school to teach what he taught when he was alive. What he taught when he was alive is being rejected today. It's one of the reasons that when you read about critical race theory, you never hear Martin Luther King being quoted in any of those textbooks, and any of those teaching materials, it's really astonishing.
Dr. James Dobson: Who would have believed that. It takes my breath away. I love this country. I love what it was based on. And I love the founders who gave it to us. And I believe it was based on Christian principles and teachings and Scripture. And all of that is being attacked. Describe the cancel culture for our listeners.
Gary Bauer: Well, the cancel culture is just another word for taking away the freedom of speech, the freedom of expression, the right to say what you believe, to debate others that might disagree with you. That's always been central to the American experience. But what we have now is a collusion between leftists and government with big corporations silencing anybody that doesn't stick to the script of this leftist worldview that we see growing in our schools, our universities, all the way down to our elementary schools in our popular culture. It's something that every American ought to fight back against, but human nature being what it is, the cancel culture works. People are afraid to say what they believe. In fact, there's research showing that Christian students and universities, and just plain old conservative students, all the way down into elementary and secondary school, are often afraid to say what they actually believe.
Dr. James Dobson: Talk about the military and what's going on in the Pentagon, and the effort to institutionalize a left-wing ideological worldview. Expand on that. You've writing about it in your daily update, and help explain what you've been talking about.
Gary Bauer: Well, Jim, I know you're aware of this, but I'm not sure many Americans are. There's been a pattern in recent decades that any institution which has been broadly associated with traditional, or conservative values, ends up getting taken over by the left. And so we've seen organizations that used to be very conservative, no longer being conservative. We've seen corporations that used to be broadly speaking on the conservative side of the spectrum now promoting very left-wing ideas. Well, one of the last institutions in America that has retained an affiliation, not with one party, our military doesn't promote one political party, but our military has certainly been associated with a set of traditional American ideas. And in recent years we've seen the military become, sadly, more woke. And I mean that in the worst way that that word is understood today. It's come out in recent months, particularly, that this critical race theory, for example, is now being pushed in the ranks of the military.
A number of senators, conservative senators, have publicly asked for active-duty military personnel to contact their offices, the Senate offices, and let them know if this junk is being promoted in the military. And one of those senators, Senator Cotton from Arkansas, that he has received hundreds and hundreds of verifiable reports from active duty military members that their commanding officers are bringing this poisonous material into the barracks, into the military chain of command. Imagine teaching the men and women in our military, that if you are White, you can't help but be a White supremist, or believe in racist theories. And telling the many minorities that have served in our American military that they are oppressed and that they're being held back. And even beyond that, Jim, teaching the men and women in our military, that America is an evil country, that it's been evil from the very beginning. Countries like communist China couldn't do a better job of defanging our military, of making it ineffective, of undermining morale, then bringing those things into the Pentagon and yet we're seeing time and time again that, that's exactly what's happening.
Dr. James Dobson: The emphasis on the military must be, as it always has been, to defend the nation against enemies, foreign and domestic. And without that ability to defend us and willingness to fight, and even give their lives for that purpose, we're naked, we're defenseless, and it would be easy to topple this great nation. That's what worries me, is that the focus of the military has to be on that willingness to fight and to defend if necessary.
Gary Bauer: Jim, where did the woke crowd now, at the Pentagon, where do they think they get their voluntary military? Now, Americans of all backgrounds, thank God, volunteer for military service, but there's a lot of research to show it's in homes built on Judeo-Christian values. It's in homes that believe America was founded as a shining city on a hill. That's the homes that produce the young men and women that end up growing up, loving our country, believing it's a country worth defending, that disproportionately volunteer to be part of our military and to defend our country. I'm hearing that the military right now is having trouble meeting its quotas. And that's no surprise to me as these stories get out about what's happening, and some of the services. I think the military is going to have a harder and harder time filling the ranks if it continues to wage war on the traditional Judeo-Christian values that has always motivated the men and women that are willing to go off and fight and die for the United States of America.
Dr. James Dobson: We have a president now who doesn't seem to understand the concepts we've been talking about, and he is putting people in power who agree with these concepts that are detrimental, in my view, and I'm sure yours, to the welfare and safety of this country. So what happens in the military has major relevance to all of us, and should.
Gary Bauer: It certainly does, Jim. And as we talked about it a little bit yesterday, the United States faces an incredible threat from a rising communist China. They're catching up with us in military fire power, and they believe their day has come. Chinese leaders are saying openly that they believe America is in terminal decline. They believe that there's nothing we can do to turn it around. Now, I disagree. I think we can still salvage this country. I know you believe in that too, but given the challenge we face, we better be sending the military into the field that loves this country, who believes that this country has done more to advance the cause of freedom than any nation in the world.
If we don't have a military that believes that, or if we don't have enough recruits that are willing to go fight and defend our country, we could find ourselves in a mess, not 30 years from now, as we are far away from the writing of Children at Risk, but we could find ourselves in a mess in the South Pacific in a matter of months, or in the next couple of years. So it is imperative that we continue to fight against these ill-conceived anti-American ideas and anti-Judeo-Christian ideas that are permeating our schools, our popular culture, and sadly, even our military.
Dr. James Dobson: There are so many countries that hate us, which country do you believe poses the greatest threat to this nation?
Gary Bauer: Well, I do believe it's the Chinese communist, Jim. They have been able, as I said, using the trade we've done with them in the last 30 years, to get millions of jobs that used to be in the United States. Those jobs have been transferred to communist China. And as China's become more wealthy, they've been able to use those resources to build up their military. In addition to that, communist China has something that the old Soviet Union was never able to do. They've been able to gain widespread influence right here in the United States. You remember a number of years ago when the debate was about trade with China, the corporate community said trade with China will change China. Well, it ended up the trade with China changed the United States.
Dr. James Dobson: And Gary, let me interrupt you there, because you and I fought a battle at that point many years ago. We saw that as a great threat and danger, and you and I lobbied the congresses, the Senate and the White House, to not give that status to China. We lost that battle because of some very wealthy people, the organizations that had great influence economically, and we lost it. And I think it was a big mistake.
Gary Bauer: And we're seeing the ramifications of it now. And you're right. We both had very wealthy donors call us and tell us we had to spend our time on something else, and neither of us were willing to back off on that. And now we see this really scandalous situation where the National Chamber of Commerce is often speaking up in the corridors of government on behalf of the position of the Chinese communists. So it's a untenable, but it's a powerful tool that communist China has. They're on our university campuses with something called Confucius Institutes. They've got the American business community often lobbying on their behalf. And just in recent weeks, we've seen a Chinese company hire a guy named Podesto who's very close to the Biden family as a lobbyist for that Chinese communist company. So that influence makes it very hard for the United States to see clearly the danger that we're facing.
Dr. James Dobson: Gary, I think our time is about gone, but let me ask you this one more question. In one of your updates recently, you talk about the Abolitionist Teaching Network, tell people what that is.
Gary Bauer: The Abolitionist Teaching Network only started last year. And it was discovered that this radical left-wing group that was putting just horrible material in our public schools was cited by the Biden department of education as a resource for public schools that wanted to deal with the issues of racial equity in the schools. The founder of this abolitionist network has said publicly, she's not trying to reform public schools, she's trying to abolish any school that doesn't buy in to her radical left-wing ideas about race and racial reconciliation. Things that, again, Martin Luther King, if he were alive, would be right on the show with us, Jim, fighting against the left-wing ideas. No question about it.
Dr. James Dobson: I believe he would.
Well, our time has gone, Gary. As usual it's so meaningful to talk to you. You're right where things are happening in Washington. And I appreciate what you do. Once again, people can get your daily update. How do they go about contacting you?
Gary Bauer: They can go to our, O-U-R, ourAmericanvalues.org. And Jim, I want to thank you for a lifetime of fighting these battles, and all that you did for many, many decades of allowing me to talk to the American people through your incredible network second to none around the country, to millions of God-fearing men and women that have followed Dr. James Dobson all these years.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, you're very kind, Gary, and let's keep it up. Shall we? I really appreciate your taking the time to be with us on these two days. It brings back a lot of memories, especially the times when we were working on a book together, I wish that book were still in print. Let's get together.
Gary Bauer: Absolutely. Want to do that. That would be fantastic.
Dr. James Dobson: Love you, my brother.
Gary Bauer: And love you.
Roger Marsh: It's true, sometimes things just don't make sense and the future looks bleak, but we have a hope that the world doesn't have. We have a savior, and he is Christ our Lord. Now to learn more about Gary Bauer, or to request a CD copy of his two-part conversation with Dr. Dobson, just visit our broadcast page at drjamesdobson.org/broadcast. That's drjamesdobson.org/broadcast. And of course you can always give us a call. We are here 24/7, as they say, around the clock to answer your questions about Family Talk, or the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. We're also happy to recommend a resource for you or to pray with you. Our toll free number is (877) 732-6825. That's (877) 732-6825. Thanks again for listening today. From all of us here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, I'm Roger Marsh. Join us again tomorrow for another edition of Family Talk.
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