Roger Marsh: On our last Family Talk program, Dr. Ken Hutcherson shared about his rough childhood, how he found the Lord, and his formative time playing in the spotlight of the National Football League. He also talked about his post-NFL calling as an evangelist as well, in addition to his friendship with Dr. Dobson. Today here on Family Talk, we're going to hear more of Dr. Hutcherson's story and what makes him so passionate about righteousness. I'm Roger Marsh. Thanks so much for listening to Family Talk today, the listener supported broadcast division of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson, known as Hutch to many of his friends, was the senior pastor of Antioch Bible Church near Seattle, Washington, until he died of cancer in December 2013 at the age of 61. As an African American born in Alabama in the era of segregation, Ken Hutcherson experienced blatant discrimination and other hardships simply due to the color of his skin.
He went on play in the NFL from 1974 to 1976, playing defensive middle linebacker with the Dallas Cowboys, San Diego Chargers, and Seattle Seahawks. He then spent more than two decades training young people to be offensive. Offensive for the Lord that is. He was the author of several books, including The Church, Before All Hell Breaks Loose, and Hope is Contagious. Dr. Ken Hutcherson is survived by his wife Patricia and their four adult children.
Dr. Dobson loved Ken Hutcherson dearly and experienced a great loss when he went on to be with the Lord. Having Ken Hutcherson as a radio guest was always a treat for Doctor and for the recording team as well. Ken had a great sense of humor, incredible stories of triumph against all odds, and a deep love and reverence for his Lord. Here now is Dr. James Dobson to introduce Dr. Ken Hutcherson on today's classic edition of Family Talk.
Dr. James Dobson: He has become a great friend of mine, I call him Hutch, and a lot of people who know him and love him do call him Hutch. He's agreed to stay with us to share more of his story. Last time he gave us a very real and sometimes harsh picture of where he came from, but it really gives you a strong idea of how the Lord has just done an incredible work in this man's life. Now, Dr. Ken Hutcherson is someone whom I've come to appreciate and respect so very much.
He's the founder and senior pastor of Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington. He is a strong pro-life, pro-marriage, pro-abstinence leader in this country, and I appreciate his love for the gospel of Jesus Christ and his defensive truth. So, Hutch, with that introduction, let me take us back a bit. We talked last time about your experiences in high school, and before you became a Christian, you were a young man who was just full of hate and racism.
One of the ways you took care of your anger was on a football field. But you became a Christian when you were a senior in high school and the athletic talent that you had developed led to many educational doors being opened to you. Tell me again, where did you go to college?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Livingston University in Alabama. I had so many scholarships, and I had just become a Christian my senior year, out of that assembly. And I said, "God, I got so many schools after me. I'm sick and tired," because I was on my own then. I left and been on my own since I was 15. I was a senior, 16, didn't have any man leadership, didn't know what to do. I said, "God, you're my coach. All these schools is bothering me. I can't even turn around." I said, "The first school, God, I hear from tomorrow is the school better be you want me to go to."
The first school I heard from was Livingston. I didn't know where it was. I didn't know what state it was in. I didn't know if it was co-ed. I didn't know if it was four year. I didn't know if it was a boy school, girl school. I didn't know nothing about it. I said, "Okay, tell them I'll come," because that was the first school I heard from after I prayed. Now, if you don't want God to answer, don't pray.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, that's not exactly a football powerhouse.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: It was.
Dr. James Dobson: Was it?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: We went to be the National Championship.
Dr. James Dobson: Is that right?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: And I'm the only guy ever to get drafted out of the school. We went to the National Championship three out of my four years there. Never has happened again in any school or any place.
Dr. James Dobson: Was the NFL excited about you?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Oh, well, they drafted me. The Cowboys drafted me, so I think so.
Dr. James Dobson: Did you start immediately?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I was one of the only rookies under Coach Landry that could start because his program was so complex that the average rookie couldn't learn it. And here comes this black guy. Now you know, when I got drafted, Doc, there was no black players in what they call thinking positions. None. They wouldn't allow blacks to be quarterback. They wouldn't allow blacks to be middle linebackers or centers. Anyone that they called thinking positions. I was the first black in the NFL pretty much to start as middle linebacker with Lee Roy Jordan in a thinking position because I was an honor roll student and I knew how to study.
Dr. James Dobson: Hmm. Well, you know, Coach Landry was a friend of mine.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Oh, man. Oh, what a man.
Dr. James Dobson: There is a beautiful bronze sculpture of him. It was given to us by the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Yeah.
Dr. James Dobson: And he was such a good man. So you then became under the influence.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Oh yeah.
Dr. James Dobson: Of one of the strong masculine leaders in the country at the time.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Oh, I remember when I got drafted by Dallas, You always hear about Christians, to this day you hear about Christians who's strong. Out in public and in private, usually it's two different Christians.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Right? And I had heard so much about Coach Landry at Fellowship of Christian Athletes and we had been at conferences and different things and I was waiting, Doc. I mean, because when it comes to my Lord and Savior, who saved me, don't play with my God. Right?
Dr. James Dobson: You don't handle hypocrisy very well.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson No, I don't. Really, I don't. And I was waiting, man. I came there. I was the best in shape. I was going to show what a Christian is. And I watched him for the whole first year to see if he was a hypocrite because I says, "You are my coach, but you also a Christian brother." And if I saw anything, I was going to deal with it. Kick me off the team. That's fine. But he was a man of God.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah, he sure was.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Man. He walked it.
Dr. James Dobson: Right to the day he died.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Right to the day he died.
Dr. James Dobson: So, you were with the Cowboys and then you were with San Diego.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: San Diego.
Dr. James Dobson: The Chargers. And then-
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I asked to be traded from San Diego. They was a couple of things that me and Prothro didn't get along with me being a Christian. And he says, "You know Hutcherson? You love God more than football, don't you?" I said that "At a drop of a hat." He said, "If God asked you to quit, you would quit wouldn't you?" I says, "I'm asking God to let me quit. I want to go full time ministry and He hadn't said yes yet." He said, "Well, we got to have people we can trust that's going to be here." I said, "As long as God say I can be here, I will be. Until then, you're mine."
Dr. James Dobson: And Hutch, explain where that commitment to Christ came from. There a lot of people who say they are Christians, and I don't doubt that they are, who don't have that kind of commitment and that kind of courage. And you hadn't seen it?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: No.
Dr. James Dobson: You had not been under the influence of some powerful minister out there or some other coach before Landry who showed you.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Right.
Dr. James Dobson: How a Christian is supposed to act, but you had it in your heart. Where'd it come from?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Well, it was very simple, like I said. The commitment came, if I wanted to be on the first team, I had to know the Bible. If I wanted to please my coach, I'd do what he say. I don't change the plays.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I do what he says. I made that commitment to Jesus and I knew how to make As, so I studied the Bible like I had to take a test on it. I had no bad influences. I only had good when I started studying the Bible and I realized that was the playbook. You do it the way it says or quit being on the team.
Dr. James Dobson: So, you actually got those principles out of the Bible.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Yes, absolutely.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah. It is amazing how the Word will speak to today if we'll open our minds to it. Hey, Hutch, when you had been traded by the Chargers to the Seattle Seahawks and you finished your career there, obviously the Lord was still working on you. How did He call you into the ministry?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Oh, it was so funny. I had been trying to get out of football to go to seminary. See, I thought going to pro ball was a waste of time because I really wanted to, I believed I had been called my senior in college to preach, but I had to go to seminary, I wanted to go to seminary. Well, God had a better plan because He was teaching me through that time in the word. And so I got drafted and I'm sitting there going, "Oh God." I was the only rookie that tried to retire after my rookie year.
Dr. James Dobson: Oh, did you really?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Yeah. I tried to retire every year to go to seminary. And the third year in ball, going to going up to Seattle, I was on the way to Seattle. I was studying one night and He says, "You don't call God, God calls you." And I said, "God, forgive me for trying to get to seminary. If you want me to stay in this game, I stay in this stupid game long as you want me to. And I give up the idea of going to seminary." That year I got my knee hurt and was able to get out and go full time ministry. I never made it to seminary.
Dr. James Dobson: And then you just began kind of a church in your-
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I started working as a youth pastor, there in the area because, football had me well known and everyone knew my stand as a Christian. I had made a shirt when I came to Seattle. "Hutch is going to Seattle to do God's battle." And that's what I wore under my pads when I went out there, and they know don't run this way, I knock you out in the name of Jesus and then help you up.
So, I went seven years as a youth pastor. We had, Doc, we had over 35 adults working with me, discipling kids. We had three to 400 kids, graduating, discipled, and many of my kids are in ministry today, because I did not take any nonsense. If you say you're going to be in leadership, this is what I expected. If you say you're going to disciple these kids, I better not catch you in with sin in your life because I'm going to deal with you. And that was the way the ministry ran. That's the way it is.
And then when I left there and started Antioch, I said, it's going to be, it was an all-white church. I was one of the only few blacks in the church for seven years. And I was so frustrated about the segregation in the church. 11:00 on Sunday morning is still the most segregated hour in America. And I saw God had said He had died for everybody and why is it that we're so separated when it comes to worshiping? It's not going to be that way when I get to Heaven. So, I'm not going to wait till I get to Heaven for it to work. So, I started Antioch with the vision that it's going to be a church for all people, a church for all colors, a church for all cultures, long as you don't mess with the Word of God.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, this is one of the many things that I appreciate about you, Hutch and about your heart.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Thank you.
Dr. James Dobson: For the Scripture, as it is written and attempting to implement the things that you see there. What is your hope for the future?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I want men and women of God to hear us, to see me as example, to see you, and to get what we used to say in the South a fire in their belly. To learn-
Dr. James Dobson: How long you been married?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: 21 years.
Dr. James Dobson: To the same woman?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: To the same baby.
Dr. James Dobson: And how many children do you have?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I have four. I'm always kidding. My wife is blonde, blue eyed, German girl, and we have four German chocolate kids. I'm glad they took after mother. They're good looking.
Dr. James Dobson: You've also got some Rottweilers.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Yes, sir.
Dr. James Dobson: You love those Rottweilers. How many of them do you have?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I have two right now and a Doberman. I just got another pup I'm training.
Dr. James Dobson: People do not wander into your yard, do they?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Not even if the dogs are out. They know that I'm not a big pacifist. I believe that God has called us to be warriors. And we are to be the greatest lovers in the world when people want to be right and we are the greatest fighters in the world when they're wrong.
Dr. James Dobson: And there's a lot of sin around us today. What concerns you socially at this time? When you look around and see what what's going on in this country, what kind of thoughts do you have?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: The bride of Christ worries me to no end. There's nothing wrong with the world, Doc. The world is of the flesh. The flesh will rot. The world is doing absolutely what it's supposed to do. We are the only ambassadors, the bride of Christ, that has not done their job in all the world kingdoms of the world. The next world kingdom is going to be Jesus. We are the ambassadors. We're the only ones that are trying to make friends with the world, instead of saying who we represent, and we need to put the world on cue. Jesus is coming and He's not coming as suffering servant next time. He's coming as conquering king. Now, do you want to make it civil or you want to make it hostile?
And we have lost the taste of repentance in our preaching. We have lost the taste of separatists from sin. We are so secret driven in many of our churches that you couldn't find a good Bible verse anywhere. And I'm concerned that the church has left its first love to be liked.
Dr. James Dobson: What do you say to the pastors who secretly believe that if they preach the gospel in the Bible, the way it's written there, if they talked about sin and the need for salvation and atonement, the whole understanding of Jesus' death, and why He died on the cross and what He did for us after He was resurrected and so on, they believe that it would run everybody away. That they would lose their congregation, that they would not be able to pay their bills and that they would just kind of fade away. I think there are a lot of pastors who believe that.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Oh, my goodness, Doc, you know that as well as I do. You want to know what I'd tell them?
Dr. James Dobson: And so, what they do is they sugar coat it.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: They do more than that. They change it. It's not even sugar. I would have appreciated if it was sugar coated, most of the time, Doc. At least there'd be some word in there. I tell them, you know what? If you ain't got the guts to stand up for Jesus Christ as the shepherd. go sell used cars. You make a better living and you won't make as much of a fool out of my Father. And the second thing I tell him, get into word. They hated Jesus. Yeah. If they hated Him first, why would they love us? I just know God loving me is enough. I don't care what anyone else thinks. My wife loves me.
Dr. James Dobson: You started your church on a shoestring.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: And a prayer.
Dr. James Dobson: And you're living proof that the people will come if they get fed.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: If you teach the word, Doc, it's better than building a baseball field. They will come.
Dr. James Dobson: It has not been very long since General Peter Pace made some statements that were carried in every newspaper in the country.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Oh, my goodness.
Dr. James Dobson: He comes from a Christian point of view.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: And he said, it is immoral to practice homosexual behavior.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Right. Yeah.
Dr. James Dobson: And he was skewed including by presidential candidates. And the media has just torn him apart. And what he said everybody believed 30 years ago.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Yep.
Dr. James Dobson: But if you think about what he said, that it is immoral to practice homosexual behavior.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Right.
Dr. James Dobson: If that's not accurate, then what the kids have been doing on spring break.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: Sleeping with each other and acting like the devil.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: And practicing every immoral act. That's not immoral either.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I mean, I was so proud of him, I was doing cartwheels, backwards.
Dr. James Dobson: Have you told him?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: No, but I would love to.
Dr. James Dobson: And I would too.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson.: I was so proud of him and, man, I was ticked when they started giving these little apologies. Now he didn't take back what he said, but they made him come down to being apologizing with the position he had. He has a right, as one of the generals, to say what is best for the military.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Stand strong. I'm sick and tired of conservatives and Christians who will speak the truth and then when they get some pressure, they back off.
Dr. James Dobson: Where were the Christian leaders in government who stood up for him? Sam Brownback did.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Yes.
Dr. James Dobson: He is the only one who did, that I heard. Now there were probably others. Oh, I take it back. Duncan Hunter, a Congressman, stood up for him. But, boy, there were very, very few. They let him twist in the wind.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Now that was the same thing that happened with Microsoft, Doc. When Microsoft backed off, when I confronted them, with strong opposition of them doing this, they backed off, knowing what was going to happen to them. And guess who the only people called them?
Dr. James Dobson: Who's that?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: The homosexual community. Christians did not call them and tell them, "Thank you for backing off." And they said, "Since we didn't hear from anyone else except homosexuals, we're going to support the bill next time."
Dr. James Dobson: Now I had a conversation in Washington many years ago with a congressional leader. I won't name him because that was a long time ago. But he looked at me and I was trying to get him to do what's right. He said, You know the reason I don't?" He said, "Because I never hear an echo."
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: "If I say something that irritates the other side, I get my ears pinned back. If I say something that you ought to be pleased about, I don't hear anything."
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: That's it. It's true.
Dr. James Dobson: And people don't realize how important it is to reinforce-
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: That's right.
Dr. James Dobson: -those that are hanging by their thumbs there trying to defend righteousness in the culture.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: And as a result, they're all by themselves and they get scared and then they do what scared people do.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: But that's the difference between me and most people, Doc. I don't mind being by myself. Jesus plus one is victorious.
Dr. James Dobson: You were as a child, weren't you?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: And I wish that we had more Christians and more political leaders and more presidential candidates and our president to understand you and Jesus is enough. Don't worry about what the rest of the world says, because when you die and I die, we're not going to be standing before a crowd.
Dr. James Dobson: You take a lot of flack now, don't you?
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Oh, three or four times a day.
Dr. James Dobson: You know what? So, do I.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: I know, I told you. I told you earlier, I'm glad you're alive. I can't be the most hated man in America.
Dr. James Dobson: I'm willing to share that title with you. Well, it just goes with the territory. Jesus said it was going to be that way. It shouldn't be a surprise to us.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: No.
Dr. James Dobson: But it still stings sometimes, especially, when it distorts what you say. I would not be offended at all if the media would simply quote me.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Yes.
Dr. James Dobson: Quote what I said.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Absolutely.
Dr. James Dobson: Quote me accurately. I'll stand by what I said. But it's when it's twisted and warped and it's obviously intended to marginalize you or to make you look foolish.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Well, we as Christians have allowed, I preach this all the time to our church, and I drive this home. I says, "When the church stop allowing secular society to dictate the definition of words, we can take back over America." You see, when the secular world dictates what love is instead of the Bible dictating what love is, we lose. When the world dictates what tolerance is instead of the Bible dictating what tolerance is, we lose. When the world dictates what sexual preference is instead of what the Bible said sexual preference is, we lose. So as a church, we going to have to start taking back definitions of words.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah. When it's called pro-choice instead of pro-abortion.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Amen.
Dr. James Dobson: Many examples of that.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Yes.
Dr. James Dobson: Hutch, thank you for being with us. It is a pleasure always to be with you.
Dr. Ken Hutcherson: Thank you.
Dr. James Dobson: All right.
Roger Marsh: Something that Ken Hutcherson had in common with Dr. Dobson was that they were both always willing to stand up for truth and righteousness regardless of the consequences. Dr. Dobson, of course, still stands up for what's right every day and he's often ridiculed and disparaged for it, but he has counted the cost and he knows that following Jesus Christ and obeying Him is worth it. Dr. Ken Hutcherson had that same attitude as well.
You've been listening to Family Talk and a classic conversation that Dr. Dobson had with the late Dr. Ken Hutcherson. I'm Roger Marsh. At the end of today's interview, Dr. Hutcherson brought up a great point. He talked about how the church has always allowed secular society to dictate the definition of many traditionally moral words. They've taken them and used them for their own purposes. They've twisted much of Christian vocabulary to have un-Biblical meanings. For instance, the words love, tolerance, and even kindness are often misused in order to push forward an anti-God agenda. We as Christians must be on our guard against these gradual cultural shifts so that we don't get swept up in that deception. Isaiah chapter five, verse 20 reads, "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light, and light for darkness."
On that note, if you would like to find out more about Dr. Ken Hutcherson or to listen to any of today's or yesterday's conversation that you might have missed, visit drjamesdobson.org/broadcast. That's drjamesdobson.org/broadcast, or give us a call at (877) 732-6825 that's (877) 732-6825. Remember, you can also write to us here at Family Talk as well. Doctor loves to hear from listeners in that way, and we make sure that each and every letter and card we receive are read. You can let us know what you think of the broadcast. You can suggest a guest that you might think would be a good fit for our program. Even request a resource if you'd like. Our ministry mailing address is the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, PO Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado. The zip code, 80949. And keep in mind that this is also a great way, using the ministry mailing address, to send in a tax deductible donation in support of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute as well. Here comes that mailing address once again, are you ready? The Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. PO Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado. The zip code, 80949.
Easter is just days away. And I want to remind you once again of our life basket initiative that we're doing here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, that we are helping people put together. Here is what you need to know. First of all, choose a person in your life who does not yet know the Lord. It could be a neighbor, a coworker, might even be someone from your past. Then take a simple basket and fill it up with treats and other goodies for that person or for the family if you've chosen a group. Add an invitation to your church's Easter services, along with a small Bible and a gospel tract. And finally say a prayer, give the basket to the person or family that you've chosen and watch the Lord go to work.
Easter is the perfect opportunity to invite your non-Christian friends and family to church and life baskets are a unique fun way to do just that. For more information on how to create a life basket here at Easter time, and also for some helpful links for what to put in it, go to drjamesdobson.org/life basket. That's drjamesdobson.org/the word life and the word basket. Well, thanks again for listening to Family Talk today, and please join us again next time for more encouragement for you and your family right here on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.
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